The sad truth in this world is that, apart from your close friends, your partners and your parents (if you’re lucky), nobody cares too much about you in general. This can be devastating, but it can also be liberating.
I mean, I think more people than that do care about your immediate a safety and well being. If you collapse to the floor in the middle of your bowling league, they will call an ambulance. And if you break down on the side of the road, odds are someone will stop to help you out eventually.
But if your problem is “I’m sad”, then… what am I supposed to do about that?
That and in your first example you’re calling for professional help because you yourself are unable to help and that person can’t help themselves.
For depression that person can get help themselves (though of course that can be difficult to get the nerve to see a therapist/doctor) and anyone else, again, is not really qualified to treat/help you. Hence the advice in the meme.
Something I had to learn is that they’re not trying to ask for help or treatment. It’s one of those times where you’re supposed to listen and commiserate, but not offer a fix. They likely already know that you’re unable to help, and they likely already know that there isn’t really a way to “fix” it, only ways to make it easier to deal with. And one of those ways is to talk with someone about it, which is probably why they brought it up. Ironically, you’ll be helping so long as you don’t offer help, just company.
Coming from the receiving end of this, it really does help to just talk to someone. Being in your own head and just heading down detrimental trains of thought is something I’ve struggled with so it’s nice to have a third party just say what you’re saying doesn’t make sense or just say yeah that sucks life isn’t fair sometimes. It’s why ‘having a shoulder to cry on’ is such a common phrase I think.
Yeah therapy should most likely be part of a long term solution to dig into things and for some people just reiterating therapy is nothing to be ashamed of is reassuring. But yeah if someone is calling therapy is not what they need at that moment. I know when I was younger I would hide the fact that I was going to therapy because I thought, based on stereotypes from media, that doing therapy makes you weak-minded or something.
The sad truth in this world is that
apart from your close friends, your partners and your parents (if you’re lucky)nobody cares too much about you in general.I’ve learned that if I open my mouth and admit I’m struggling or a little depressed, the relationship ends very quickly. Even if you aren’t noticeably depressed, it doesn’t affect them at all and they only know it because you admitted to it, it’s like they think it’s contagious. Now, no matter what it’s big happy smile and I AM ABSOLUTELY GREAT LIFE IS GOOD HOW ARE YOU? My therapist is the only person I will ever tell when I’m having a rough time and even then sometimes it’s really hard to admit it and not keep pretending everything is good.
i stopped sharing or trying to reach out a long time ago. its much easier to keep people around if I just do unhealthy “habits” and try and hide evidence than risk losing more people.
i trust nobody anymore. safer.
My depression often tells me those people don’t care that much either. But, my parents are dead, I don’t have a partner, and maybe my friends aren’t “close” enough.
It makes those specific people that much more precious.
Going through this right now
I’m fully aware of the irony of downplaying how complicated emotions can be ITT, but after all my years depressed or whatever mixture of things I am, I think the simpler concepts have done me the most good overall really.
I came across these 5 words a couple years ago, and it struck me as the exact advice I needed for a long time.
Don’t believe everything you think.
“The mind is an excellent servant, but a terrible master.” David Foster Wallace
Web searched it, and the quote from his speech “This is water” is actually
Think of the old cliché about “the mind being an excellent servant but a terrible master.” This, like many clichés, so lame and unexciting on the surface, actually expresses a great and terrible truth.
Edit: The speech was a good read
Thanks for the added context and providing a link for folks! It’s a decent commencement speech overall and I appreciate the attention he draws to the importance (and difficulty) of perspective in it. If anyone understood the “great and terrible truth” of the adage, it would be him.
Yes! Our brains when left unchecked can be a torment nexus - stating grounded in reality (not your thoughts!) is crucial
But have you?
Seriously – in clinical trials, light exercise resulted in significant improvements in ~80% of depression cases.
I realize that going out and doing that while depressed is extremely difficult … but nobody said that getting out of depression would be easy. And the only person who can do it is you. A little taking care of yourself goes a long way – even if it’s very difficult, maybe at least try a little?
I found this out in the opposite direction. Whenever my health flares and I can’t leave the house for a few weeks I get really down and irritable. A 15 minute walk a day keeps the depression away
I walk 2-3 miles every day. I’ve been doing that for six months. Still incredibly angry and unstable. Guess I’m just fucked, eh? Or maybe I’m not doing it hard enough? Maybe I should just do nothing but cardio all day, huh? Would that be enough? No, it’s never fucking enough for you people.
Still incredibly angry and unstable.
I can see that.
Guess I’m just fucked, eh?
Well, I guess you might be part of the ~20% for whom exercise doesn’t help.
And you’ve already tried it, which is as much as I’ve ever asked for. So I guess it’s time to try something else? What does your doctor recommend?
Whoa. First, it’s neither your fault nor mine that you might be in that 20% of exercise resistant depression. I mean, it’s like a 1 in 5 chance, so not uncommon.
Also, thanks for letting me know that you have tried that; I’m sorry if you’ve told me before and I forgot. I asked because I didn’t recall. I agree that a 2-3 mile walk every day is “enough” light exercise.
I’m not a professional, so please forgive me if my suggestions aren’t professional-quality. Exposure to nature helps some people. You might make sure your diet has enough Vitamin D, very low levels can affect mood. Are you self-isolating, even if you aren’t lonely? Maybe try to have more IRL social interactions; even if they are superficial, good ones can help confirm that not everyone deserves your anger. Also, maybe anger needs more high-intensity work for less time – or maybe resistance training (weight lifting) instead of cardio?
Have you looked into getting professional help?
Both of these things can only help. Meditation also helps
A relative dropped their wii fit balance board on me. Unironically started drinking water and noticing a more grounded feeling by trying to impress my wii fit waifu. On days I skip, I notice a dip in my mood and energy.
That actually sounds kinda decent response. The person giving advice is just trying their best, we aren’t all therapist
At a bare minimum i always appreciate an attempt to help, even if their ideas aren’t actually helpful
Yeah my sentiment. Feels like if a person doesn’t give you the response you need/want then I guess you move on. Weird advice because people bitch about people going around with their problems
Yoga legit really great a managing stress and getting your mind off tense subjects.
Dehydration genuinely fucks over your ability to regulate your mood and concentrate on tasks at hand.
Like, I know you want to be mad at the “Easy Answers” crowd. But also, sometimes there are things that consistently improve your life. And people know it. And you can just do them and feel better.
A bit like asking someone who is in pain “Have you tried ibuprofen?” And then they’re angry at you until they take it. Then the pain subsides. And sometimes they even say “Thank you”.
as someone who has been on that particular moon i have to agree. i need to add sleep hygiene, healthy and enough food and excercise. It might not get you out of a crisis but things like low blood sugar and vitamin d do affect a persons mood significantly. so it might not be enough to cure depression but it very much helps with stabilization
My buddy’s got a “mildish” bipolar disorder. For years they ate like shit, drank hella soda (why is it always dr pepper) and never exercised. I’m sure as shit not gonna say stopping all that fixed the disorder, but they’re so much less volatile now that they do Hot Yoga and quit the soda… Their diet’s still trash tho…
Yeah this is a “I hate to tell you this, but it does in fact work” situation.
Doing those things won’t fix everything, of course, but they do help. Like, OP should be lucky they have someone to talk to, who’s taking an active interest in their wellbeing
Yoga legit really great a managing stress and getting your mind off tense subjects
unless one of those tense subjects is a pinched nerve in your spinal column.
Yoga is a general stand-in for light isometric exercise. If you have a pinched nerve, adapted exercises including specific yoga poses and low-impact exercise are still recommended to help recover. For moderate exercise to get the endorphin-powered stress relief, swimming and upright/recumbent stationary cycle with good posture can be appropriate for someone with a pinched nerve.
I hate it too, but tailored exercise is kind of a magic bullet.
In that case, you might need actual physician’s care and not just friendly advice.
Unfortunately, finding a physician willing to read medical records these days is impossible
100% agree. The “easy answers” are pre-requisites. You don’t get to bitch about them not helping until you’ve actually done them and still feel bad. See also:
- When was the last time you ate?
- What did you eat, and why didn’t it include a green vegetable?
- Are you getting enough sleep?
- Are you getting enough good sleep? (Sleep apnea is extremely common and also quicker and more convenient than you think to diagnose and treat.)
- Are you taking a daily multivitamin?
People dismiss these out of hand without actually trying them. Your body affects your mood a lot. I’ve had to deal with so many people both at work and in my personal life who were perpetually crabby because they never learned how to properly take care of themselves.
Except yoga is aimed at something way beyond the scope of tense subjects. If I ever encounter anyone advising me yoga like this I will punch them in the face
If you’re struggling with depression, you need to see a doctor. To go with the metaphor in the meme, the average person isn’t trained to save a drowning person, who can also end up drowning anyone who tries to save them. Lifeguards are trained to save drowning people.
If only I could afford the $200 co-pay per visit. Some of us are too poor to afford mental health.
Just stop being poor and get better insurance. See? So easy. /s
Talk to the providers, some may be willing to waive that depending on need. Also, that seems expensive; I’m on shitty healthcard.gov insurance and my co-pay per session was only 40 USD. I know when you are struggling, 40 can feel just as unreachable as 200, but getting that price down can be the difference between spiraling down or climbing up and out.
Talk to the people that are offering even shitty help – see if they have ideas for getting you professional help, maybe they could even pay the provider for you, or know about lower-cost services in your area.
yep. i had a girlfriend with depression.
she refused to do anything about it. other than weaponize it against me. and blame me for it. it was horrible.
many folks just refuse treatment and act like the world is the problem, or their friends/family are the problem.
“I’m sad”
“Here, let me try and cheer you up”
“IT DIDN’T WORK! NOW YOU’RE THE PROBLEM!”
“Okay, I’ll give you some space.”
“Oh, so you’re just going to ABANDON ME?!”
“Nevermind, I’ll shut up now.”
“Aha! The SILENT TREATMENT!”
:-/
What else could I do for you, besides saying, “that sucks, friend”? Asking seriously.
- I can offer you advice based on my own experience, that may or may not work for you.
- I can refer you to talk to someone who has a professional degree in studying feelings, who may be able to help you with better advice than me or prescribe drugs.
- I can sit, nod, pat you on the back through words.
If it is someone I know in person, I’d try to send them care package based on what I would think they liked.
I’ve found Brené Brown’s way of describing empathy, and imo answering this question, helpful:
Thanks, that is helpful.
The most important thing is empathising, and if you express that by saying “that sucks” that’s pretty good.
Saying “that sucks” is probably fine to say but it’s not my first choice.
Really the best thing you can do is show that you’re listening while they open up. I interpret that as listening mostly and making brief comments (something you can say in 5 seconds) relevant to their story.
Guess that’s basically point 3 in more detail.
The practical stuff is cool too. It shows you care
Try some exercise. For a brief time, the sadness is overshadowed by physical pain and a burdensome sense of weakness, inferiority and futility.
It’s good to change things up once in a while!
Physical exercise has a very good evidence base, as good as antidepressants and without side effects.
My legs hurt, that’s a significant side effect 😭
You can reduce the intensity but the important thing is to keep going. After a while either the pain goes away or you get used to it.
You can do less! It still helps! (But I imagine you want to do that amount)
For a brief time, the sadness is overshadowed by physical pain and a burdensome sense of weakness, inferiority and futility.
The best way to do something is to do it once, decide it is impossibly difficult, and then tell anyone who encourages you to try again to fuck right off.
The second best way to do something is to not do it and say you’d have failed anyway even if you’d tried.
It’s good to change things up once in a while!
It literally is, though. You see the line “Touch grass!” get thrown around a lot. But seriously. Go out and touch some fucking grass. Take your shoes and socks off. Get your piggily wiggles deep into the earth on a sunny day.
Depression is one of the hardest things I’ve ever talked to people about. People that don’t get depressed don’t get it. People that are they themselves depressed can enable bad behavior. People that don’t believe in depression (thanks dad) think that you are over reacting. And people that want to help are usually the ones that don’t really get it either and don’t know how to help.
Of course there is a bias towards negative experiences as when you are depressed those are the ones that stick out the most. But it still seems like bringing it up to people is such a mixed bag that most people end up internalizing it which only exacerbates it and continues the cycle of hiding emotions (I’m speaking from a male perspective if it wasn’t obvious).
And as someone that has been horribly depressed at various parts of my life I honestly can’t even give any good advice since those parts of my life are such a blur. All I know is that one day I was just okay without even realizing it. Sure I still get depressed from time to time, but I think the part that has changed most about me is my perspective. These days instead of focusing on the feelings of depression I focus on what is causing the depression. Sometimes there is no cause and I just have to deal with it, but most of the time I can figure out what is currently doing it and try and mitigate the issue if I can. And if I can’t, I’ll try and distract myself when I have free time instead of sitting inside my head.
Everybody’s journey is different and I recommend taking what I say with a grain of salt. I was able to face my demons by myself but I know I’m more of am exception rather than the rule. If you think you need help, you probably do. And I recommend help from a professional or someone close to you that has had similar life experience in the past. Talking about it may not seem like it helps sometimes but it really does make small dents over time. And speaking about it out loud can really help you work through something and put it into words instead of generic thoughts floating in your head. It’s why a lot of artists and musicians poor their emotions into their work. It’s easier to work through things in the real world than it is with the abstraction of ideas that is your mind.
And believe it or not, the advice of “drink water and do yoga” is less about the actual activities and more about letting your mind and body do something else besides be depressed. Pick a different activity that you actually enjoy and just see where it goes. The worst that can happen is that you are still depressed but have a new hobby. And, let’s be real, none of us drink enough water.
Amen man. You have a great approach and this is the way we should be teaching folks.
I have a similar story. As a adult on my own, I just had so much perspective and ability to like deal with my depression. I also learned to just let it be and not fight it, an that usually just disempowered it and it was not as big of a deal.
Personally I feel too many folks don’t think of mental health issues like physical problems. They treat them as this special mysterious thing, but a lot of the same solutions and techniques you’d deal with for physical problems or chronic pain really pragmatically translate to mental health.
And like mental health, folks with physical issues who refuse to acknowledge them often make them worse and become defined by them. And a lot of folks are really stupid and stubborn about these things and too proud to seek help or act like acknowledging the issue would make it worse or something. Or they might just go join some online community where they can complain without every having to get the pushback of changing something or seeking treatment, and fall into the self-pity cycle.
I’m glad you’re getting more water now.
Way to stretch that arm, too.
Last time i really opened up, i was one upped and then fired a couple months later because opening up made people (my boss who one upped me) uncomfortable.
😑i feel you. Makes me think about gang members that rap about their life and people try to retaliate (to the lyrics). You’re just trying to be yourself and then everyone around you is just weird.
Have you tried heavy drinking?
Yes, it just gave me indigestion
On it thank you. But can’t due to working too much
If you just want someone to listen to you and be supportive you should say so. A lot of people, especially autistic people, jump to trying to find a solution to fix it. Communicate better, say you just need a compassionate listener and both parties will be better off.
Not sure why this was downvoted. I mean if this was Lemmy shitpost, I get it.
Yeah. Lot of people on the spectrum see everything as problem/solution. Like if you’re venting, say so.
There’s also the “Oh yeah, same situation” crowd. People who feel the same way, who agree about the state of the world, and also struggle to get by.
Which in itself, isn’t a bad way to respond - it’s honest, after all. However, it makes the idea of “reaching out for help” worse than pointless - not only won’t I get any help, but I’ll get more validation that I was right to feel hopeless in the first place.
What do you expect others to help you with in this situation?
they don’t even know.
i had girlfriends with these issues… they just often lack the emotional maturity/forethought to realize that there isnt’ anything other folks can do, and they vaguely expect like other people to just magically make their problems go away, and they resent you for not being the ‘cure’ to their problem.
it doesn’t necessarily have to do with mental health, it could be physical, or just a job they don’t like, or a ton of other things.
the issue is the person suffering, is looking for a solution outside of themselves and their own actions, and refuses to acknowledge the solution requires them to change themselves or their circumstances, and often like change habits or lifestyle or etc.
i remember being a suicidal teenager and I just wanted it to stop, i wanted the bad feelings to stop. i had no clue how to get them to stop because they just kept coming at me. some people just… are like this their entire lives and they often self-medicate because that is a way to get them to stop temporarily. but getting them to stop systematically… is a much larger challenge, and there is no guarantee the problem won’t come back.
and yeah one option is to join a community or have friends who just validate the shit out of your bad choices or share your frustrations and complaints with. because those folks won’t ask you to change or try something new, they will just agree with you that you’re fucked and there is nothing you can do.
Some people like to vent though too. I’ve been told, hey, I’m not looking for answers, just an ear. I always try to offer some help or advice, but I realized that isn’t necessarily what the other person wants, it’s what I want. So I try to listen, try to say more than just “That sucks,” and if I get asked for help, I’ll see what I can do.
But sometimes, it’s just “That sucks,” and that’s usually because you made your bed and now you need to lay in it, but that’s kinda mean to say to someone who’s already not feeling so great.
there is nothing wrong with venting.
however for too many people venting is all it ever becomes. and those people are always the same folks who won’t let anyone vent to them. because everything becomes about what hapless victims they are and nothing can ever change their life.
way too many folks just want to vent vent vent vent vent and never ever address the problems. they refuse to change their job, refuse to try new things, refuse to meet new people, etc etc. and their entire identity becomes their misery. so yeah, they end up only being able to socialize with folks who endlessly validate their toxic attitudes and just get stuck like that for years or their entire life.
or they get stuck in a cycle of exploiting kind people who just eventually get sick of their shit and their poor miserable lifestyle. can’t tell you how many of my exes, and how many people i date before i even get into a relationship, theri entire life is this cycle of misery and refusal to change and self-medication.
like you know how many first dates i go on where the person just vents at me for 45m about how they hate their life? like 2/3 of them. And yeah, as total stranger it’s not my job to help you, it’s to get the fuck away from you because you clearly lack the maturity and self-control to not dump your problems on a stranger. not to mention, most of the ‘venting’ done at me by these people are ‘problems’ like they can’t afford first class plane tickets, or they can’t afford a Porsche and it’s not fair.
anyway, these are the same folks who demand others be ‘emotionally mature’ as in, validate them and never challenge them. because you know, it’s everyone else’s fault that you don’t like your job, your ex was mean to you, your parents suck, etc etc. and they are supposed to fix it for you, otherwise they are worthless assholes. it can’t be that maybe you’re the worthless asshole who needs to fix your shit and make changes if things in your life are pathologically making you unhappy.
and as for you, sounds like you just are getting off on yourself by being a ‘helper’. the truth is, you aren’t really helping, you are more than likely enabling and validating shittiness. would you ‘help’ an alcoholic by buying them alcohol? plenty of victims of alcoholics fall into this trap of enabling and being abused by the person, that’s the reason things like Al-anon exist, because folks who refuse to help themselves almost always end up dragging everyone else down with them.
I don’t expect anything anymore, that’s why I stopped speaking out. People ask how I’m doing and I just keep it light, because there is nothing that can be done on an individual level when the issues that drag down life are systemic (unless everyone bands together to revolt, but I’m not holding my breath on that.)
I work with people experiencing homelessness, and I’ve worked inpatient psych where I saw the full gamut of socioeconomic statuses, and can confidently tell you people who attribute their depression to external factors that are out of their control universally fail in treatment. There are a ton of people on the street who aren’t depressed, and a bunch of rich people who want for nothing who are depressed. Sometimes, depression is caused by a neurotransmitter issue and meds work, but more often the issue is a pattern of thinking and perception, and the only treatment is learning new ways to think.
Or the ones who play Misery Olympics and try to 1-up (1-down?) you.
I have been getting this argument the past few years, in person, that growing up in a poor family with uneducated parents makes me more privileged than people who grew up with doctors for parents in elite/rich places, and that means I had it better than they did and my life is better than theirs and I should have empathy for them and their lower privilege and more difficult lot in life.
and who do you think makes that argument? yeah…
i love people who think everything is a competition. it results in those of us who lead extraordinary lives clamming up and kicking out those of you who think that by us sharing one of our smaller events, we’re trying to one-up you.
The problem doesn’t need to be solved in order to help others. There are plenty of unsolvable problems that people need help with. That response is a direct way to show empathy and let’s the other person know that you can share things you’ve done to mitigate the problem that did or didnt work. Even if it’s not a solution, it can help skip steps where one might fumble.
As someone with a recurring severe depressive mood disorder diagnosis, I always found the validation helpful. I could complain without pushback to them. And, it help dissuade me that I was actually the source of everything bad. But, ultimately, I needed to get pharmacological help AND focus the core health items: sleep, food/water/diet, exercise/activity.
