Who knows? Platner may be a right wing plant. But maybe so is Collins.
I mean, she has been a Republican her whole career. And she votes with the Republicans in Congress. Come to think of it, I’m almost certain Collins is a right wing plant. Platner still seems to be the better choice.
This election in Maine is everything I hate about politics.
To Defenders of Platner: It’s OK to not want yet another douchebag repping the team. It gets fucking old. Let people advocate for not wanting a shitheel for a senator.
To Platner’s Liberal Attackers: Get on the bus. Primary is over, you have your anti-Trump candidate. Voting for a politician isn’t declaring undying faith, it’s taking a bus ride to get closer to where you want to go. A politician will seldom get you exactly where you want to go, but they can get you closer by the way they vote, even if they suck as people. So come voting time, get on the bus.
Hell yeah. Platner said it best in his victory speech:
He’s standing up for Mainers that can’t afford a senator for themselves.
The messaging is ON. POINT.
Susan is still very concerned.
We need more Graham Platners running and winning.
I can’t believe how many “liberals” are falling for the smear campaign by the right against him.
I’d rather have a candidate that admits his mistakes and has now adopted the correct positions, than these establishment freaks virtue signaling while supporting an orange pedophile war criminal.
This guy had a literal nazi concentration camp guard tattoo on his chest and that wasn’t even enough for democrats voters to not vote for him lol.
Why is it that people who present themselves as morally superior often seem the least willing to forgive? Some would rather support establishment figures like Susan Collins or Janet Mills, politicians they view as helping sustain the policies and military interventions that created the problem in the first place, than support a former mercenary who ultimately turned against that system. It seems strange to condemn someone for what they once were while giving a pass to the institutions and leaders that continue to benefit from the same machinery.
That type of behavior benefits the Jeffrey Epstein Class. When the hell will we ever get shit done, if you cannot forgive or accept the people that are closest to the core of the system and have decided to help us? All you have to do is keep an eye on them. I’m not saying you should “blindly” support Platner, you should watch every single one of his moves to confirm he didn’t lie. Zohran Mandami has delivered so far, and people had a similar level of skepticism, but it was worse, because they hated him for being muslim, so.
If their only argument is the Nazi tattoo, that’s sad. It’s a very silly one. The point is that you genuinely think people can’t change, and that is really dangerous. And no, I’d not have these standards for people like Trump or similar, because they are already very old and adamant about who they truly are. Platner was a victim of this system, American Exceptionalism and American Imperialism (both still prevalent here in Lemmy; leftists who still want the USA to be the World Police, to intervene everywhere because they think they are Humanity’s smartest and best choice or whatever “heroic” Main Protagonist Syndrome nonsense they carry) propaganda, and at least Platner is teaching all those around him to wake up. I prefer that over the other choices, why won’t other people?
If you’ve spent the last 8 months calling Platner supporters Nazi apologists, but you didn’t mention LaFlamme once, it’s time to admit that you just like internet fights. Platner is an extremely problematic candidate, but his platform proved that progressive-populism is more popular than centrism in purple states. Getting his voters to support a better progressive-populist in a state with rank-choice voting was not a heavy lift, provided you actually wanted to do that.
I wonder how many establishment Democrats will rally around Susan Collins like they rallied around Joe Lieberman in 2008?
Depends on how many checks AIPAC is willing to write
Man the elites tried their best to punch at him with press. I feel so terrible for the attacks hes been going through. Go Platner go!
I voted for him. Fuck the establishment. He refused to play dirty politics and sling mud, even when it was slung his way numerous times. I wish there were more candidates of his integrity.
Everyone has a past, but people can grow up and change. Graham is no different. It’s who he is today that matters.
If you truely don’t believe people can change, then what’s the point of finding Jesus, going to prison or rehab, seeking mental therapy, etc.?
Being forgiven doesn’t mean being chosen to lead the people.
People late to their mcjobs are forgiven less than this.
We don’t generally forgive convicts and let them have a new life, that’s why recidivism is so bad. Society is also quietly prejudiced against people with mental health issues, which is why it’s so hard to get treated or get time off for it. “Finding Jesus” is loaded in so many different ways I can’t cover that here.
That said, I’m totally for understanding people can change and am very much against ghost banning people with a history that they have grown out of. People do change, everyone has things they’ve fucked up in the past.
Case in point: Smedley Butler.
He was a retired Marine Corps Major General, started out as a true believer but paid attention to all the shit he was involved in and eventually realized that he was just violently enforcing the wishes of the wealthy true rulers of the American state.
So when some of them approached him to join the Business Plot, where they’d coup the US government in a similar fashion to Mussolini’s Italian coup (basically march a bunch of soldiers and supporters in to the captial while the government is unprepared to defend against a mob and demand the government be handed over, though in Italy’s case it helped that they had a system where a monarch held power over the rest of the government and ended up getting their way by promising to leave the king alone). Butler instead sat in meetings to gather information and then turned on them, at which point the government had some harsh words for the plotters (that included GW Bush’s grandfather) before sending them on their way to think about what they did wrong (and how to do it more effectively the next time).
This guy wasn’t just a marine but a leader of marines and though he didn’t question his orders (that we know of anyways) in the moment, he did reflect on everything he had seen and done and didn’t like it. IMO former believers who turn are even more important as allies than those who were always on the right side because the ones who have been on both sides have more experience and knowledge about the specifics of how the other side operates.
Yeah I’m really hoping Platner is another Smedley, but I’m afraid he might not be. Giving power to someone like this is scary. Hell the only reason Smedley was able to stop the business plot is that the conspirators assumed he hadn’t changed.
In the primaries I was tentatively pro Platner. In the general I’m just pro Platner. And if he wins and his actions match his words then in 6 years I’ll be extremely pro Platner.
Hell, for all I hate Fetterman I’m still glad he didn’t lose the general, Senator Mehmet Oz would’ve been worse.
Ah yes, the old American tradition of letting rich white men get away with literally anything, up to and including High Treason.
Maybe I’m crazy, but “guys I grew out of the murderous Nazi beliefs” just doesn’t cut it for me. Especially for someone running for office.
They might even be telling the truth. Don’t care, you were a fucking Nazi so I will never trust you with the levers of power.
If this guy was actually a Nazi he’d be fast-tracked in the Republican party instead of trying to play on hard mode rehabbing his image as a working class Democrat. You don’t even have to cover your tattoos up as a Republican, they just let you be secdef
Let’s assume for the sake of this comment that it is all bullshit and he’s actually right wing or whatever… The Republican party would now be in a win/win situation in Maine. No matter what the outcome is, they’ve won. They don’t even need to spend money on that race.
And if my grandma had wheels she’d be a bicycle.
Good cop bad cop. I don’t believe they are as stupid as you think.
It’s there any Nazi ideology you can quote? Or are we still talking about a covered up tattoo?
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I’m not astroturfing shit, I’m just fucking pissed at all the “I refuse to vote for someone who supports genocide” people bending over backwards to avoid criticizing a man who has a Nazi tattoo and has openly talked about murdering Iraqis.
Apparently all you need to do is just say some socialist shit, and you’re golden.
Have some fucking standards.
I hope all of this concern ends up being unwarranted, I really do. And I would hold my nose and vote for him in the general if I were in Maine.
But this “how dare you be at all skeptical of a man with a dark, murderous, past and a Nazi tattoo on his chest” shit is just too much.
Like that’s really all it takes? Just pay some lip service to socialism, and you’re willing to ignore the biggest red flag for a Democratic Senate candidate I can remember ever seeing?
I think you’re more of a Nazi than Platner. He got a pirate tattoo he later regretted. You’re branding people with lifelong Scarlet Letters for innocent acts, declaring people inhuman for the most mild of actions. I wouldn’t call you a Nazi, but you’re definitely displaying more Nazi tendencies than Platner is.
This is braindead as fuck. Pirate tattoo? Are you a literal child? Platner enjoyed killing civilians so much he went back 4 more times lol. Jesus christ, you people.
Plus they have an encyclopedic knowledge of Nazi symbology and expect everyone should as well
Seriously. I had never even heard of a totenkopf until it came out he had one. To me it just looks like a skull n bones variant. I might’ve gotten one myself in complete ignorance. If he’d gotten a swastika, that would be an entirely different matter.
Just consider though; he could have been driving a Volkswagen, using an IBM computer, wearing Chanel cologne, while draped in Hugo Boss. Imagine that. Why do esoteric symbols matter, while the corporations that participated in the genocide still get a pass?
I like voting for impulsive people with no foresight to research something they are permanently doing to themselves!
This the game you want to play?
Lmao, people are known to be impulsive in their 20s when drunk. Not to mention the fact he got the tattoo at a time when we weren’t walking around with smart phones in our pockets.
So yeah it’s not hard to believe that a 40 yr old has better decision making skills than their 20 yr old self
Yeah, it’s so bad faith it’s comical. It’s ridiculously transparent. You could create a police line up of various deaths head iconography, from pirate flags to black death symbolism to US military units, with a few Nazi ones thrown in. Then ask these mosquitos sliming about Platner if they can identify the Nazi ones. I imagine 90% of them would fail that test.
Frankly, unless they’re an anti-fascist activist or a historian, anyone with that level of encyclopedic knowledge of SS symbols is a little sus. If someone told me they had that level of knowledge of Nazi symbolism, I would ask them if they also have that level of knowledge of other famous military or authoritarian movements. Do they also have such knowledge of Soviet, Chinese, Roman, or ancient Egyptian military symbolism? Do they study military iconography of all sorts? Or just the SS stuff? Honestly, I think anyone with that level of SS knowledge is telling on themselves.
The totenkopf is not an obscure thing, it’s literally like the third or fourth most recognizable nazi symbol after the nazi swastika and the SS runes. Even if you manage to have that massive blind spot, the totenkopf does not look like a jolly roger or any other pirate imagery so that excuse falls flat. Dude knew the whole time it was a nazi tattoo. All that is to say nearly anyone is better than Collins and till he shows he hasn’t I’m willing to believe he’s changed.
What Nazi beliefs has he espoused so far on the campaign trail?
Enjoying killing innocent Iraqis. Next question?
“Four tours as an infantryman in the Marines and then Army, did both Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s hard to explain how much I enjoyed combat. It is both physically and intellectually challenging, and incredibly exciting (especially the first few times). I was never a huge fan of killing, at least not for killings sake, but I did love winning and that required killing.”
From his 2015 reddit comments.
Sounds like he very much enjoyed it, lol.
I think that requires a wilful misinterpretation of what he said to conclude he “very much” enjoyed killing given he expressly says he did not. It’s certainly questionable, but it’s not as blatantly clear as many people are claiming.
Politicians never lie, good point. And it’s not like we have at least two examples of this exact thing happening before.
Alright well I guess we will see. Also fuck Susan Collins. I’m glad she’s outta there.
She’s not out of there yet, Platner has only won the Democratic nomination. He still needs to run against her.
That’s the level of political knowledge these people possess 🤦
Sure people can change, but has he actually shown anyone that he has changed? Time will tell wether he’s just another Fetterman or if he has genuinly changed, but I’m not holding my breath.
Marine Corps and Blackwater, a paramilitary group known for their crimes against humanity.
I got a bad feeling about this.
I mean, the joke of this election cycle has been the candidates on display:
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Susan Collins: A woman who has never seen an NDAA she hasn’t supported, who fully endorses our direct military interventions around the globe and our indirect espionage, sabotage, and misinformation campaigns targeting enemy states and religious groups, and who hates any kind of labor movement with a burning passion
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Janet Mills: A Zionist to her core, a neoliberal ghoul, and a socially reactionary shit who squandered the goodwill of Maine voters for nearly a decade and became the single most reviled governor in the country. Someone who is functionally indistinguishable from Susan Collins on every political issue you could name, with the singular exception of who the Majority Leader of the US Senate should be.
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Graham Platner: An ex-military/ex-mercenary who has fully recanted, adopted an anti-imperialist position, organized and campaigned against all of the above, and is hoping to run for office on an anti-Zionist, anti-Imperialist platform on the grounds that he’s been on the front lines and hates what he saw.
Like, I don’t think Platner should be in the US Senate. If he’s a Shoot-and-Cry ex-imperialist, he can do that shit from the sidelines and endorse a proper progressive candidate instead. But now that he’s the frontrunner against these other two turds… I’m not sad about it.
What I mostly can’t comprehend is, why in the fuck is there not any better candidates in the whole state? Same with Pingree who ran unopposed for the democrats… How is that even possible??
In my small commune of about 60k people, there are more candidates for the counsel from every single political party than there are counsel seats. How is it in any way possible, or for that matter appropriate, to be unopposed in any kind of election? It makes no sense to me.
why in the fuck is there not any better candidates in the whole state?
Running for office requires a combination of charisma, organizational skills, and self-delusion that most people don’t possess. And it also requires enormous amounts of free time. Collins is a career politician. Mills is a career politician. Platner is on 100% disability from the US military, so he doesn’t need to pull down a 40-hour work week in between campaign appearances.
In my small commune of about 60k people, there are more candidates for the counsel from every single political party than there are counsel seats.
Well, part of the problem is that you do just have a 60k person community with multiple seats at play. So the stacks are relatively low and the possibility of winning is relatively high. Maine is 1.4M people, presumably a much bigger stretch of territory to canvas, and it’s just the one position you’re trying to win. Platner pulled in $4.6M in a quarter to fund his campaign. Three months! And he raised more money than some people see in a lifetime. How many of your commune candidates are getting that kind of donation for a counsel seat?
I can hope he’s a Smedley Butler type, but yeah I’m glad that wasn’t the race I had to decide on
Yeah, don’t get me wrong: Platner is clearly the best choice given those options. But I hate that these are the people to choose from in this particular race.
Besides, after Fetterman’s heel-turn, I’m leery of any candidate with a checkered past. I do believe in second chances, but some jobs are just too important and corruption-prone to risk it.
One did it in my state and she was so far “left” then switched immediately when elected. People can’t blame us for being worried. If he is great then fine, but far too many times the let these absolute liars in. Far right actors pretending to be left. I’ve been called all these names before for being weary and I’m unfortunately near always right.
Besides, after Fetterman’s heel-turn
Fetterman was always a shill for Israel. He was the DNC’s dog in the Pennsylvania fight. He looked like a schlub, sure. But he’d already spent four years as lt. governor under millionaire industry flak Tom Wolf. Fetterman officially toed much of the party line on social and economic issues, which was good-enough for primary voters when his opponent was a shill as bad as Conor Lamb. But he hasn’t really turned heel so much as he won’t shut up about this one issue everyone hates him for.
Definitely possible Platner’s going to spend the next six years screaming “Sandy Hook was an inside job!” once he takes office, and make his entire personality about hugging a gun. But I haven’t seen this out of him just yet.
I do believe in second chances
He’s not my ideal choice for Senate.
But I do find a certain dramatic irony in reviewing the three people who had the best chance of winning in November, sizing up the guy with the Totenkompf, and deciding he’s the least fascist guy on the ballot.
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Ok 👍
But but but he was a bad boyfriend in 2012 after 5 tours as a marine. Not abusive but a “bad” boyfriend
It’s all the murder that gets me.
To be clear. you don’t support veterans but you are fine with status quo candidates that send people to kill and die while lining their pockets? You support politicians giving unlimited money for genocide without ever having witnessed the consequences of their decisions while insider trading on those decisions? That’s what you support?
this is the pancakes and waffles meme
No? Wtf lmao. You’ve got quite the imagination!
According to the woman who founded Ladies for Kavanaugh
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What’s your excuse for the Nazi tattoo
He was shirtless and showed the tattoo in a clip at his sister’s wedding where the brother in law’s family was entirely Jewish. Yet no one recognized the totenkopf.
Hell, he got through a military screen and served after he got the tattoo. Pete Hegseth also has Nazi tattoos and those were caught by the military.
Blame US education around Nazi symbols of hate. I’m a 29 year old, and I had no clue what a totenkopf was. I knew about the swastika, SS symbol, and iron cross, but NOT the totenkopf.
Graham covered up the tattoo when he learned what it represents. You don’t see Pete Hegseth doing that.
Fuck off with these purity antics. He’s ANTI-ISRAEL which should be all of our priority these days.
Here is the actual symbol.
If you had asked me what that symbol was before this campaign, I would have just said a pirate symbol. The only people with obsessive knowledge of SS iconography are WW2 buffs, neonazis, and neonazi WW2 buffs.
If you gave the average person a quiz, asking people to pick out nazi iconography from other uses of that imagery such as pirate flags. Most would fail that quiz. You likely would as well.
I’m sorry, but the “Nazi tattoo” thing is bullshit. A kid got a pirate flag tattoo, later found it was problematic, and covered it up. And bottom feeders like you use that as justification to slander him, even though there is no allegation he has ever been involved in any neo Nazi or similar movements ever before. I think you may be the actual Nazi here.
Notice how the guy’s only response to you is to call you ignorant for pointing out that he didn’t actually know a goddamn thing about the topic?
Your ignorance of history is not something to be celebrated. You sound naive to a fault. Life will be very hard for you.
The average person doesn’t have this symbol tattooed on their chest, and as such are less prone to learn about it. When you (a person who presumably doesn’t have a Totenkopf on their chest) see a Totenkopf in the countless media about WWII, or the are we the baddies meme, or whatever, it doesn’t stand out to you, and it isn’t memorable, and you forget, and you don’t learn about it. And that makes complete sense.
But if you have it tattooed on your chest, and it’s what you see every morning when you brush your teeth, you’re a bit more likely to go “wait a minute I know that” when a totenkopf appears on the screen. Maybe you’ll miss it the first couple times, but in 18 whole years of adult life with this thing on your chest, you will at some point make the connection between your tattoo and the symbol on David Mitchell’s cap.
Also, just as a meta argument: arguing that someone who knows what a Totenkopf is is a nazi but that having it tattooed on your chest is fine is completely fucking bizarre.
It’s not an obscure symbol, it is one of the most commonly used Nazi emblems, for example seen here:
The totenkopf might have been common among Nazi ranks and in its symbology, but the American education system failed to communicate that fact.
I know about the swastika, SS symbol, and iron cross, yet Graham Platner’s campaign was the first I’ve ever heard about the totenkopf.
But hey, Graham has never organized with Neonazi groups, and he covered up the tattoo once he learned the meaning. Case closed.
Why are we spending time on this and avoiding the part where Platner is Anti-Israel as compared to Susan Collins? Is the Gaza genocide not important to you??
True, I can forgive westerners for not recognizing these symbols for what they are, our education is a joke. I support him above any Republican who are essentially open fascists, I just don’t believe he is as authentic he says. It’s been shown he knew what it was long before he covered it up as well.
He might turn out to be an amazing senator and an actual progressive, I have just seen white men with this style for decades, and it’s like a black widow or a grizzly bear telling you they are changed and won’t cause any harm. Actions speak louder than words and the only actions definitively attributable to him is shooting and bombing people and a mild “sex scandal”.
Does he have a history of union organizing, charitable work or anything like that? I’m not automatically assuming he will be terrible, I do believe people can change, even if he was literally an avowed nazi. I just think it’s important people temper their expectations.
It’s been shown he knew what it was long before he covered it up as well.
I’d like to see the evidence for this.
BWAHAHAA!
That sketch came out a year before he got the tattoo. You think a deployed early 20s marine was watching a lot of British comedy shows? You’re a buffoon.
If that’s the point you think they were making, I feel bad for the people in your life who have to suffer your presence.
If your best evidence of it being a widely known Nazi symbol was that it was on a sketch of the “Mitchell and Webb” show, you’ve got some pretty shit evidence
It’s just to illustrate that it has been shown in media depictions for years, this isn’t the only example I could find, I just thought it was funny.
You mean the widely used meme that most people don’t know where it’s from but do know is a Nazi immediately when they see it?
You can’t even make it out. It just looks like a blobAnd the one front and center on the hat?
Yes pretend people alive right now haven’t been raised by family directly affected by Nazis. As if our parents and grandparents didn’t exist.
You are betraying the memory of all those killed in the Holocaust by watering down the term Nazi. People one here are calling Platner a Nazi even though there has never been any evidence that he has ever been a member of a neo Nazi group, ever espoused Nazi ideals or policies, ever attended Nazi events, etc.
You’re like a 17th century witch hunter looking for weird looking moles on people, concluding their signs of the Devil’s corruption. You can’t actually demonstrate Platner doing any actual Nazi stuff, so you have to grasp at the straw of a tattoo a drunk kid got one day while in the Marines.
And really, go to the actual Wikipedia article on the Totenkopf Note that the exact same symbol was used as a pirate flag. For most people, that’s what they associate with the deaths head.
If what you claim is true, why has every pirate movie not been picketed by the Jewish rights groups? I imagine they would be protested if they had pirates flying swastika flags. Yet, no one gave a shit about pirate symbols until a progressive candidate has one on his chest.
Ehm, cough, cough, …, this is the sign of the 3rd SS Panzer Division. So, yep, it is related to the Third Reich and hence to the Nazi regime.
Can you tell me which of these are Nazi symbols and which of them are pirate symbols?
This is an invalid argument because it pretends dogwhistles aren’t real, it pretends the intent is irrelevant of other interpretations exists.
HE KNEW THE ASSOCIATION AND KEPT IT
If it’s that terrible of a symbol, why aren’t pirate movies protested by Jewish rights groups? I guess Johnny Depp is a Nazi too?
The only people with obsessive knowledge of SS iconography are WW2 buffs, neonazis, and neonazi WW2 buffs.
And those of us who are high enough on their lists to spend five minutes learning to identify common symbols that indicate danger.
I think you may be the actual Nazi here.
Seriously? This is the worst thing about y’all. You simply won’t allow for the possibility that criticism is even genuine, let alone legitimate. Every single time someone raises a potential concern, it’s always, “You’re the real Nazi!” or “You’re a DNC bot!” or whatnot. As if there isn’t a single person on the planet who gets worried when a guy with a Nazi tattoo and a history as a mercenary is running for office.
You can argue that Platner is a lesser evil or whatever, but this, “If you have a problem with a totenkopf tattoo, you’re the real Nazi” shit is just straight up cult behavior.
IF it’s that terrible a symbol, why aren’t pirate movies boycotted and picketed by Jewish rights groups?
Because, no matter how many times you repeat “it’s just a pirate symbol!!!” (how many times in this thread?) that’s doesn’t make it true:
It’s not just a “skull and crossbones,” it’s the specific design that was used by the Nazis and is known as a hate symbol.
It is the same fucking thing. Here’s a WW2 Luftwaffe version:
Here’s a historical pirate one.
They’re the same fucking symbol.
You’re arguing with a literal moron. I don’t know why you think he’s going to suddenly develop a frontal lobe and be capable of reason.
It’s obvious that these “I hate Platner” astroturfers have no interest in doing anything other than spreading their hate. They don’t want a discussion. They want to scream shit at you until you give in and let them be “right” even though not a single shred of anything exists to support their nonstop whining and bitching over a fucking pirate skull.
They absolutely are not.
I understand that you’re not familiar with the symbol and that this is your first time encountering it. I can easily believe that a drunk soldier in the same boat wouldn’t know the difference either. But the design of the Nazi version is distinct and recognizable, if you’ve seen it. The tattoo was indisputably a totenkopf and not a pirate flag. Nobody who knows what a totenkopf is would get the two confused.
The part that I take issue with is when you go around saying that nobody knew what a totenkopf was before this and therefore all criticism about it must be in bad faith. You’re just projecting your own knowledge and experiences onto every other person on the planet. I knew what a totenkopf was years before this and my impression of the symbol has nothing to do with Platner, or like, Maine in general. Platner could be the greatest or the worst person in the world and it wouldn’t change what I think about the symbol at all. My knowledge about and impression of the totenkopf is based on it being plastered on Nazi uniforms, and used by Neo-Nazis, not a controversy over some random Senate candidate.
It’s just ridiculous that you won’t even accept the possibility that people you disagree with are just wrong, that’s not enough, they have to be actively malevolent and dishonest. Even in the most generous possible read of Platner, there are still red flags that would cause some people to have genuine concerns and doubts about him.
The only people with obsessive knowledge of SS iconography are WW2 buffs, neonazis, and neonazi WW2 buffs.
I belong to exactly none of these groups but I know the obvious Nazi symbols because I don’t want Nazis around me or the people I love. Fuck off with the obvious fallacies.
It’s only an “obvious Nazi symbol” because you’ve chosen to call it that to slander Platner.
Before this campaign, you wouldn’t have been able to pick it out from a line up of pirate flags. You’re full of it.
Totenkopf:
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/totenkopf
Platner’s tattoo before it was covered up:
No sir, I don’t give a fuck about Platner, I call them obvious Nazi symbols because it’s literally what comes up in the first image when you Google “obvious Nazi symbols”, you fucking doofus.
My whole first page was swastikas. You want to complain about “obvious falsehoods”, don’t lie about such easily checked shit, you fucking doofus.
Hey, stupid, the totenkopf is in the literal first image. Are you new?
Googled it. Checks out.
Oh hey, look at all this Nazi symbolism!
How many pirate movies have been picketed by Jewish rights groups? Pirate movies feature deaths head flags quite prominently. If the actual Holocaust remembrance and Jewish rights organizations don’t have a problem with it, then you’re probably just being a moron.
Totenkopf:
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/totenkopf
Platner’s tattoo before it was covered up:
Pirate flags:
Are you really too stupid to tell the difference between a pirate flag and a Totenkopf?
Nah that’s such a cope. First of all he IS a WW2 buff. Second it’s fairly common knowledge that the SS used the skull and crossbones symbol. So if you’re getting a skull and crossbones tattoo in CROATIA, literally an Axis nation with a strong Neo-Nazi movement, maybe you should have your guard up?
Oh, and then there’s the part where he has reddit comments prior to being called out on his tattoo literally talking about the totenkopf. And comments saying how lots of US military personnel have Nazi-adjacent tattoos but it’s totally fine.
Hang on, is it a Nazi tattoo or a Nazi-adjacent tattoo?
Can you at least get your lies straight among yourselves, back in Jerusalem or wherever Mossad assigned you to post from?
My first association of skull and crossbones isn’t Nazis. It’s pirates. When I think of Nazis, I think of the Swastika. That’s at least distinctive enough that it can be relegated to a Nazi symbol. But I’m sorry, I’m not letting the Nazis own the skull and cross bones. I’ll fly that flag high as a symbol of piracy and rebellion. I see nothing wrong with getting a skull and cross bones tattoo even today. I’m not letting the Nazis steal our culture from us.
Oh, and then there’s the part where he has reddit comments prior to being called out on his tattoo literally talking about the totenkopf. And comments saying how lots of US military personnel have Nazi-adjacent tattoos but it’s totally fine.
Who cares? He got it in his early 20ss. I’m sure at some point he later figured out the connection, or someone pointed it out to him. There was probably a several year delay before he went from “yeah, I suppose this does look a bit like that Nazi symbol, but I know I didn’t get it for Nazi purposes, so I don’t care” to “shit. I’m running for office. I’m seeking to be a role model. Best to cover that shit up before I put myself out in the limelight. It’s a bad example to send to children.” Self-discovery takes time.
I’m not looking to smear leftists though, so I don’t see what the big deal is.
If you can’t believe that a person can change, what hope can you have that societies can?
Wow. So you’re saying that if you inadvertently got a Nazi tattoo (which is already being generous btw), and then found out later that you had a huge SS tattoo on your chest, your reaction would just be “oh lol that’s a bummer” and go on with your life and not get it covered? Cause I’d be pretty fucking horrified.
When confronted with his obvious moral failings over the years, Planter’s defenders say “he’s changed, he wants to be a better person.” To which i say, has he really shown accountability for any of this?
He to this day he denies knowing he had a Nazi tattoo up until he was publicly called out on it, despite clear evidence to the contrary. He denies allegations of misconduct against his past girlfriends. I don’t think he’s even been open about cheating on his partner with like 14 different women just said something vague like “I wasn’t a good partner cause I had PTSD”
I believe people have the power to change but this guy feels like just another greasy politician to me, and I dont believe he has genuine remorse if he’s not even willing to admit to this stuff.
Wow. So you’re saying that if you inadvertently got a Nazi tattoo (which is already being generous btw), and then found out later that you had a huge SS tattoo on your chest, your reaction would just be “oh lol that’s a bummer” and go on with your life and not get it covered? Cause I’d be pretty fucking horrified.
Honestly, yes. I would react just that way. If I knew I didn’t get it as a Nazi symbol, and I realize that 99% of the population doesn’t recognize it as a Nazi symbol? Then yeah, I would be in no hurry to get rid of it. The Nazis had tons of symbols. We can’t just let them delete whole swathes of our culture. It’s OK to let go of the most blatant ones, like the swastika. I’m not going to try and redeem that. But the swastika is also the Nazi’s most well known symbol. Any prior association has been completely washed out by this. But a deaths head? That’s not a a Nazi symbol. That’s a pirate flag Nazis decided to appropriate.
If I got a tattoo that I thought was cool, but later found out it was also co-opted by some group of Nazis in a minor way? No. I’m not going to be in a rush to remove that. I refuse to let Nazis control my life. As long as the vast majority of the population doesn’t see it as a Nazi symbol, and I know in my heart I don’t mean it as a Nazi symbol? I’m not going to be in any rush to remove it.
Imagine if I was old enough to say, have a wedding anniversary or other important event in 1988, and, before knowing the neo-Nazi implication, got a tattoo that said “88.” If I later learned about the implications of that number, unless that tattoo was in a highly visible location, I wouldn’t remove it. I’m not publicly advertising the 88 by showing it off. The only people who ever see it are those close enough to me to know I’m not a Nazi. No. I see no reason to remove that. But maybe if I was going into public office, I would then remove it so that I wasn’t placing that symbol in the limelight.
Or, we can stop with this childish gotcha bullshit. Unless Platner has actually advocated Nazi policies, then STFU. Having poor symbolism doesn’t make you a Nazi. Believing in Nazi ideals, Nazi policies, and trying to enact them makes you a Nazi.
I can see why he took his time because honestly, it’s not that big a deal. I would have no problem hanging out with someone who had a such a tattoo. Hell, I wouldn’t view it as disqualifying to date someone with such a tattoo (if I weren’t already married.)
Again, it’s a pirate flag tattoo. That’s almost certainly what he was thinking of when he got it, and what it meant in his mind.
I’m sure his thought process was something like, “yeah, that pirate tattoo I got as a kid does unfortunately resemble the one the Nazis used. Everyone I know close enough to actually see the tattoo knows I’m not a Nazi, but as I’m entering politics, I better get it covered up before the hyperventilating morons on the internet use it as an excuse to slander me as a Nazi.”
In fact, I think you need to delete your lemmy username. Why? Because your name included “de Sol.” The Sun. You know what a major Nazi was? That’s right, the Black Sun!
The Nazis used solar iconography. Your account references the Sun. Therefore, you are a Nazi. Please delete your lemmy account, Nazi scum.
That’s so disingenuous. If I had a “black sun” tattoo, yeah that’s a pretty damn good sign im a Nazi or at least a Nazi sympathizer or edge lord. There’s a huge difference between that and regular sun imagery. You’re making it sound like Platner had a generic jolly Roger or skull and crossbones tattoo, when his design was clearly a skull and crossbones based off of the totenkopf. It doesnt just happen to resemble a totenkopf thats literally what it is. It is NOT a pirate tattoo, no more so than a tattoo of an eagle holding a swastika is an Indian good-luck symbol. Sure you can trace its roots back to something more innocent but that doesn’t make it innocent.
Lol, at least get the facts right. He didn’t say oh well, he learned and got a cover up tattoo
He had it on his chest for like 2 decades before getting it covered up. The only reason he got it covered up is because when he ran for office people called him out on it, but based on his comments on Reddit about totenkopfs and Nazi tattoos in the US military he clearly knew what it was long before the public outcry and did nothing (and in my opinion he probably knew what it was when he got it).
“Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is watching”
I know about how much alcohol was involved with combat marines in foreign ports and let me tell you, its a miracle that he remembers getting the tattoo in the first place, let alone getting it for some sort of deep seated ideological reason.
Its the symbol used on that " are we the baddies?" Skit, people recognize it as a Nazi symbol in pop culture.
I didn’t when I saw the tattoo and I didn’t recognize it as being the same as the one in from the That Mitchell and Webb Look skit, either. You must have an incredible eye for detail and amazing memory that you recognized the Nazi tattoo and were able to also recall it matched the symbol on a hat ypu saw in a sketch show.
Or maybe you’re trying too hard.
Dude got what he thought was a cool looking tattoo, not knowing the Nazi reference. What’s the other evidence you’re using to judge him here?
I wasn’t judging him, I’m saying people know that symbol as a symbol that Nazis used. Perhaps I recognize it because my dad watched WWII films/documentary as a kid.
If I’m suppose to judge him then his job working for Blackwater doesn’t paint the best picture of an individuals morals. I’m happy that he won, but his past is strange for a progressive.
people know that symbol as a symbol that Nazis used
I didn’t, and, while I’m not an expert in nazi iconography, I do know my fair share of symbols and dogwhistle phrases associated with them and other white power/neo nazi groups; a lot of new ones thanks to this administration posting them to xitter.
Perhaps I recognize it because my dad watched WWII films/documentary as a kid.
And here we have it. Your dad exposed you to information the average citizen does not possess. Your anecdote is not representative of “most people” as you said it was.
That came out roughly 1 year before he got the tattoo.
How many British comedies do you think a deployed Marine was watching?
The claim that WoodScientist is trying to argue is not just that he didn’t know what it meant when he got it (and that it’s fine he left it after learning about it), but also that anyone criticizing the tattoo must be disingenuous, because nobody knew what the symbol was before this controversy. In fact, lots of people knew what it was, some from that sketch, some from movies and stuff, some from keeping an eye on far-right groups, etc. If anything, the only thing I’m learning about from this controversy is just how many people don’t recognize it.
I still see it as a just a pirate symbol. I’m 90% certain you wouldn’t have been able to recognize it as a Nazi symbol in a line up of other deaths head symbols before this campaign started. Here it is:
To me this is just a pirate flag. Do you also call everyone that owns a dog a Nazi, because Hitler owned a dog?
We know what you see it as, because you’re a moron.
In what world is this a pirate flag. Show one place this is used as a pirate flag. Come on, it’s one thing to say you don’t know but you’re just lying now.
Look at the actual Wikipedia article on the symbol. It literally has a whole section on the use of the symbol in pirate flags.
I still see it as a just a pirate symbol.
Do you also call everyone that owns a dog a Nazi
Holy mental gymnastics, batman. He was a fighter, a WWII buff, a marine, a mercenary, who bragged about “fun wars”, and got a Nazi tattoo in a former Nazi-aligned state, and beyond universal healthcare, he really isn’t even terribly progressive or radical. If the boot fits…
This bizarre type of simping for milquetoast, neoliberal, suspicious candidates is how y’all keep ending up with the likes of Hillary and Biden - who inevitably cede their power to increasingly right-leaning candidates. This refusal to demand better for the Democrats (and further, admonishing those that do) is how we keep diving deeper into the fascist decay.
The simping is crazy. All the evidence points to a questionable past and when its brought up, people attack that individual instead. Its rather bizarre.
I hope Platner does a good job. If he ends up making questionable political choices moving forward though well then shrug.
Do you think this is a Nazi flag as well?
Because this is a flag of people who literally fought and died against the actual historical Nazis.,
He was a fighter, a WWII buff, a marine, a mercenary, who bragged about “fun wars”, and got a Nazi tattoo in a former Nazi-aligned state, and beyond universal healthcare, he really isn’t even terribly progressive or radical. If the boot fits…
So he sounds like basically every soldier I’ve ever met? And quit slandering him with the Nazi label. You’re insulting the victims of the Holocaust every time you water down that term.
Platner is not a neoliberal. He defeated a neoliberal in the primary, running on an unabashadly progressive ticket. Demanding better Democrats is exactly why we now have Platner.
Your attitude is precisely why we’ve been stuck with such milquetoast candidates. Your approach selects for psychopathy. You demand candidates have perfectly manicured pasts. You only accept people with spotlessly clean backgrounds with nothing you find uncomfortable or problematic. The only people with those backgrounds are power-hungry psychopaths who’ve been groomed their entire lives for paths of power. You’re looking for wealthy white people who went to private school, did debate club in high school, and attended an Ivy League school. That’s the only kind of candidate you find acceptable - highly polished, a perfectly curated social media history, absolutely nothing objectionable about them.
That’s how you end up with soulless corporate goons. You end up with people that ultimately believe in nothing except achieving power, and they’ve lived their entire lives ensuring that they do absolutely nothing that could ever offend someone. You’re looking for candidates that have spent more time obsessing over their image than actually living their lives.
Sorry, but real people make mistakes. Real people have flaws. And if the Democratic Party is going to have any future, it needs to stop crucifying every male candidate that doesn’t have the vibe of a Harvard gender studies major.
A likely scenario is that a bunch of guys on leave gets drunk and everybody gets tattoos, and he drunkenly chooses this one because it looks wicked cool when you’re drunk. Perhaps they all got the same tattoo, and someone else picked it out.
Who knows? It’s all speculation, including that it’s proof that he’s an enthusiastic Nazi, but hiding it to fool the Libz. In fact, the drunken shore leave story makes more sense than being a Manchurian Candidate.
I’m a lifelong unaffiliated independent, and all I know is that I want the Dems to take the Senate majority, and Platner is key to that. I’d rather have a Dem Senate with Platner in it, than a MAGA Senate without him.
Can confirm that drunken sailors will get dumb tattoos. I used to work with a veteran who drunkenly got the Laughing Cow mascot tattooed on his thigh.
Dumb tattoos are not the same as a Nazi tattoo.
A friend of mine came back from the navy with a tattoo of 2 inch high old english block letters:
CHICKEN
POT PIEMilitary on leave get some bad judgement tattoos all the time.
Seriously. This is downright tame as far as military tattoos go. A 23 year marine was drunk with his buddies and thought a pirate tattoo would look pretty badass. And honestly? If it weren’t for the Nazi connotations, I would say it is pretty badass.
I swear, some people won’t be happy with a male progressive candidate unless they have the sanitized and castrated vibe of a gender studies major.
Right on. James Talarico is the perfect example of what you’re talking about. His image is so sanitized and insipid specifically to appeal to the milquetoast voter.
Controversies like this one only have staying power not because most reasonable people actually think it’s a problem, but because opposing campaigns and political parties astroturf social media and “strategically amplify” the story on mainstream news sources to make it seem that way.
Plus they were in Croatia so I imagine there was a language barrier and it was 2007. The year the iPhone launched, so I highly doubt any of them had access to the internet the moment they got the tattoo. If one of the group did, I highly doubt they would have thought “hold on let me research all possible Nazi symbols before we get this skull tat”
Then you fucking remove it when you learn what it is
He got it covered up last year.
He had it covered, essentially the same thing.
Why is Collins accepting money from actual Nazis?
Why do you think I defend Collins? Why are you that my very obvious point that YOU HAD BETTER CHOICES AVAILABLE isn’t the point?
Because the PR campaign that made up the story about the Nazi tattoo started in her office.
Made up the story??
You people do dumb shit? Especially as a marine.
Fuck, I did some dumb shit as a late teen/early 20’s that may have got me a a ‘watch list’ for flying
Well I didn’t do Nazi level dumb shit
What actual Nazi things has he done? Not just get a pirate flag tattoo. Like, what neo Nazi groups has he been a member of? What Nazi policies has he advocated for? Make your actual case. Don’t focus on bullshit gotcha crap.
OK so you’re arguing that he’s an idiot for getting a Nazi tattoo then.
Being that stupid is also disqualifying
Yeah, maybe that’s something that should disqualify someone from office. Call me crazy I guess.
Ok. You’re crazy.
Everything is a nazi/white supremacy/fascist symbol because nazis/white supremacists/fascists appropriate EVERYTHING. Every symbol they have they stole from someone else because they are lazy assholes and because they have to constantly change the code signals. Normies can’t, and honestly don’t want to, keep up with every frog skull lightning bolt mustache cartoon character hand signal bullshit icon they use to identify each other. Expecting people to feel bad or jump through hoops when it’s revealed that the nazis have “claimed” yet another thing we didn’t know they were using gives them power they don’t deserve.
This excuse stops working when somebody admits that the association IS THE CAUSE of their choice
True. But have you ever seen a white supremacist stop at one small ambiguous tattoo? Nazis usually are loudly obnoxious wildly unoriginal twats about their shittyness. They usually hang out with other nazis. They usually join nazis clubs. Where’s that oppo research? It all feels too corpo setup to me.
Have you met an Average American? Many don’t even know the history of the confederate flag and you expect them to know a nazi symbol not shown in popular media?
So he can walk into the Pentagon and hang with the homies
Having looked at his old tattoo side-by-side with the totenkopf symbol they say it portrays I barely see the resemblance -it was more of a silhouette anyways. -That said, he’s since gotten that tattoo covered up with something less divisive.
There is none beyond, “vote blue no matter who,” which is super ironic since it’s coming from the people who always use that phrase as a cudgel against self-avowed leftists who vote Democrat in general elections to minimize harm.
I really hope the guy isn’t a fucking Nazi, and I would vote for him if I was a Maine voter… But that doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend it’s not a MAJOR red flag like people here seem wont to do
He’s not a perfect candidate, and Dems have to learn to let go of their weird obsession with perfection. The objective isn’t to elect the perfect candidate, it’s to elect a winning candidate.
This. I mean come on! People bitch about Fetterman turning right. But this guy has changed, he’s not a plant by the right at all. They won’t even entertain the possibility.
Okay. Hope they’re right.
Fetterman’s value is in being one more seat closer to a Dem majority. He may not be a very cooperative member, he may even be a DINO, but he’s still a Democrat, and he makes it much easier for Dems to take the House majority. Let’s not forget that if Fetterman hadn’t won, we’d be stuck with Oz.
I’m sick of Dems having DINOs like Manchin and Sinema, but at least they register as Dems (Sinema eventually went Indy, but she was a Dem at the start), so they offer that tiny, but significant advantage.
It’s small consolation, but if we end up with a one vote lead in the Senate, we’ll see the value of a Fetterman or Platner. There’s a D next to their name, that’s good enough right now.
And if I couldn’t force myself to vote for Platner, I STILL wouldn’t vote for Collins. There is no scenario where I’m casting a vote for any MAGA Traitor Pedophile.
Fetterman had a stroke, which has been shown to change peoples’ personalities. Fetterman was also an establishment democrat even before running for senate. The fact that fettermans stroke was not enough to get the dems to replace him really makes their judgment of any candidate ring pretty fucking hollow, doesn’t it?
I feel like this is a really big point nobody brings up when this incessant and obnoxious non-sequitur pops up.
I hope you get the person you vote for.
I hope you get that person too
Perfect is the worst enemy of good
Where’s the good? That’s the problem. You stopped at “meh, not as bad as…” which is not the good you promised.
Sound like maga.
Since you seem to be a US-American I’m not surprised you don’t know that saying
You really can’t see the similarities??
When did he get it? If at 21 he was young and stupid, if at 31 it’s a different story. Maybe you never was young and stupid, most people were.
That’s why most people shouldn’t be voted in to lead the people.
We got a real one here.
“Meh”
Wolf in wolves clothing? Do we have another Feterman? Why can’t we find someone a little less tarnished is all people are asking and everyone gets brigaded.
If you’re looking for perfect people to run for office you’re going to be waiting a long goddamn time. Personally, I’d rather somebody who’s a little bit tarnished and is publicly regretful of their past mistakes then someone who pretends to be the perfect person.
Susan Collins was like that. She pretended to be perfect. She pretended that she was going to work with both sides and then immediately fucked over the left. Kyrsten Sinema, she tried to convince everyone she was the perfect candidate and as soon as she got in office she switched sides and became basically Republican.
So yeah I’ll take somebody with a little tarnish and life lessons that taught them up how fucked up the other side actually is.
Unfortunately I am stuck here in Illinois, having had Dick Durbin as our senator for fucking decades. He’s only now being replaced because he’s voluntarily stepping down.
Fetterman had a stroke, which has been shown to change peoples’ personalities. Fetterman was also an establishment democrat even before running for senate. The fact that fettermans stroke was not enough to get the dems to replace him really makes their judgment of any candidate ring pretty fucking hollow, doesn’t it?
I feel like this is a really big point nobody brings up when this incessant and obnoxious non-sequitur pops up.
All the tankies hate Platner, and all the shill bot accounts do as well. Bot traffic is not just a Reddit problem, everyone knows traffic is shifting to lemmy. Everyone here take care, not every account that comments is doing so in good faith
Since you mentioned shills and bots, I’ve been wondering if some of the types always shitting on voting were but figured this place was too small to be botted.
No, bots and people pushing propaganda and divisive narratives are all over the internet, in all social media. It’s one of the ways Russia and china are aiming to destabilize the western world and it’s working really well
Coming to the conclusion many of the most die hard tankies on lemmy are plants and I’m a leftist with some communist ideations (leaning a bit more toward anarcho socialism these days tho).
Platner could be a right wing plant, certainly despise his past, but the fact that the establishment is going after him like this tells me he’s probably legit. Plus, he’d be replacing Susan Collins, it can’t get much worse than her.
Great points. I’m still pretty firmly democratic socialist, but I at least try to have the sense that you and I are on the same sidetm
If we don’t form a popular front we lose. And over on the socialist side, I (syndicalist/mutualistish leftist) hold two left wing purity tests: equality/freedom and political pluralism.
I was surprised that Lemmy allows bots. Terrible idea.
There are two types of things called bots:
- Actually programmed accounts, which until very recently were limited to algorithmic responses like counting words, doing unit conversations, or giving random facts
- Disingenuous actors seeking to influence conversations by using multiple fake accounts
The former is what some Lemmy instances “allow”. The latter is a complex moderation problem that isn’t really allowed so much as hard to differentiate from (dumb, wrong, whatever) organic responses. And with LLMs now may be able to be done algorithmically as well.
Not that easy to block them. Many of them are part of sophisticated overseas influence operations that may be using local proxies. A couple years ago it was easy to spot them, now it takes work. When you’re dealing with chat traffic on this scale…it’s a time-consuming job.
I have seen no evidence to support these claims.
Meanwhile, your account is less than one day old.
This critique would make sense of they were actually pushing some sort of product or ideology.
It’s up to each instance admin team whether to allow bots (where they can identify them) and whether to defederate from instances that do allow them (again, where they can identify them)
It’s up to each instance
People who find a Nazi tattoo disqualifying also hate him. A Republican would probably be worse but he’s nothing to celebrate
I’d argue he’s better than Susan Collins, which is kind of the point here
But you started it with more than those two choices. You had better people available. You could’ve chosen someone else, someone not such an easy target for Republican propaganda. The people defending him will be called hypocrites.
I doubt the Republicans will find that line of reasoning fruitful, given the actual white nationalist tattoos, and more importantly, the open white nationalist rhetoric by the Secretary of Defense, installed by the Pedo in chief.
I’m sort of out of the loop here. What does he have tattooed? I doubt the guys got a swastika on his chest, eh?
It is indeed not a swastika. It actually has a unique name of its own. It’s actually just as easy or perhaps even easier to say than Nazi tattoo. But using it’s correct name isn’t as manipulative or as leading as calling it just a Nazi tattoo. Which is why they will never call it by name. Because most people would have no clue what it was in the first place lol. Even the guys that he served with have corroborated his story that he didn’t know what it was and neither did they. But this is all the people have and they will beat it till they die. Why I don’t know. What’s in it for them? It certainly isn’t honest though.
And it’s funny that the name people use (“totenkopf”) is just “deaths head”, i.e., any skull. The specific one he got did match a Panzer division logo, but it’s not a well publicized symbol that would be commonly recognized.
What a load of bullshit, of course he knew what it was.
I swear, y’all will convince yourselves of literally anything.
There’s some testimonies online even from his own Reddit account that alluded that he knew the meaning all along. I don’t know guys, but Platner just screams Fetterman 2.0 to me. Would really love to be proven wrong.
Yeah, it’s not even like one of the more esoteric symbols, it’s the one that is most apparently evil at first glance
I think you’re a liar if you say you’d have recognized the SS totenkopf before this attack broke.
And I think you’re an idiot if you believe this is a secret Nazi plot that involves intentionally getting and keeping a Nazi tattoo for 20 years and only remembering to cover it up when you run for public office.
So, which are you?
Really? That’s your argument? That there’s no way that a person would ever recognize an infamous SS symbol, so they must be lying? Lol wow.
I don’t know what else to tell you beside, yes I fucking did.
Pretty much anyone who has ever, in their life, studied WW2 and the Nazis beyond a surface level knows the symbol. I grew up watching WW2 documentaries on History Channel, so I’m sure that didn’t hurt.
And even if you haven’t, it’s literally the symbol in the “are we the baddies?” sketch.
Regarding the tattoo, my guess is that he never planned on having the electorate see the tattoo. But why the fuck do I need to analyze this guy’s decision about not covering up his Nazi tattoo?
For me, “he has a Nazi tattoo” is enough for me to not support him for public office. It’s very simple.
As I’ve said before, I’m not in Maine, but I would vote for him in the general if I was, and hope he’s not a fucking Nazi. Because in our shit system, it’s still a better choice than any Republican.
But I guess fuck me for wanting the bar to be a little higher than, “just vote for the murderer with the Nazi tattoo and hope for the best.”
It’s also pretty disheartening (and unfortunately, not all that surprising) to see the "I refuse to vote for anyone who supports genocide"crowd bend over backwards to avoid being critical of this fucking guy. The reddit edgelord who murdered Iraqis civilians.
Legit question: how old was he when he got it?
When I was a marine I did and said a bunch of homophobic stuff. I just did it because it was the thing to do and I didn’t have a fully developed frontal lobe. I wasn’t the only one and there were a bunch of people in the same boat.
If he did it at like 34 I would probably assume he is lying. But if he did it before 25 I would say he did a stupid thing and can possibly look past it if his action match his rhetoric.
Remember everyone gooning for fetterman? He turned into a piece of shit without racist tattoos.
He got the tattoo at 23. Deployed oversees during the Iraq war. Almost 20 years ago. Nearly half his life ago.
You sure are spending an awful lot of time and energy in this thread, defending what is quite a weak line of reasoning. Can I ask whose payroll you’re on? It might be time to tell the boss it’s not going too well here.
It takes me like 3 sec to type out a comment, dude, this isn’t hard work. There’s very little time, and essentially no energy put into this.
I fucking wish someone would pay me for this shit. I’ve literally said that I would vote for the guy if I were in Maine, so I don’t think they would want anything to do with me.
I figured it was something like this. The Nazis appropriated so many symbols from so many different cultures that some are definitely not well known.
Yes to be clear I had heard of the totenkoph or the deaths head before. But it took till this false controversy surrounding it and looking at it. That I realized that I’d seen it other places as well. But didn’t know what it was even though I knew the name. Your average person knows far less than even that. Which is why, wherever mass media is reporting on it. Or whenever someone trying to manipulate people emotionally speaks of it. They always frame it as Nazi tattoo. Leaving people to imagine unambiguous or well known symbols like the swastika.
This is why education is important. We saw the Totenkpf in school for the first time in like the 6th grade here (northern Europe).
Yep, here in the US it wasn’t really touched on.
It’s a fucking totenkopf, it’s like the third most popular Nazi symbol after the swastika and the lightning bolt.
Well, a death’s head is no good, I completely agree. I’m European, though, and so saw these in school relatively early on. I’m just playing the devil’s advocate here, but would he have had access to the same level of knowledge?
I’m genuinely curious since I have no (or less, at least) skin in the game.
Maybe my opinion here is twisted because I grew up watching shows on the History Channel (back when it did history) about Nazis and WW2.
That said, I’m pretty sure I learned about Nazi symbols in high school, but I could be misremembering
Sorry we didn’t all grow up as enthralled by nazi symbology as you apparently did.
I’d say the mustache is higher on that list than an otherwise generic looking skull and crossbones.
Today I learned that knowing something means that I’m in its thrall.
Good to know!
Otherwise generic looking skull and crossbones
So disingenuous. It does not look generic at all. This is a generic skull and crossbones ☠️
The death skull is a very specific design
Sorry, to me it just looks like a pirate flag. That’s the exact kind of tattoo I would expect a marine to get.
The Totenkopf skull, in fact I’d only seen it as the ones Mitchell and Webb were wearing for their famous Nazi comedy skit, and personally it took me years to make the connection that that had actually been a Prussian->German->Nazi emblem.
People say it was a totenkopf skull and crossbones like you would see on an SS officers hat. I’d encourage you to look up images of the tattoo and that symbol side-by-side though because aside from the outline i would argue they don’t look that similar. He has since had the tattoo covered up with something much less divisive.
I’m European. We covered a lot of that stuff in like 6th grade the first time around, so I have no need to look it up as such since I know exactly what a Totekopf looks like.
Can you show me his tattoo before he had it covered up?
I’m not a Mainer so I can’t vote for him. I don’t know if he’s the best candidate and I’m simply unconvinced by all of the hype about his tattoo. I’ve heard him speak and he sounds good but it’s undeniable that he was discovered by the same political strategists as those that found Fetterman. I honestly wouldn’t fault anyone for not voting for him but I’m leaning towards likimg him more than I don’t.
You’re blind if you can’t see thats a totenkopf
looks like a smudge to me. I guess you have to squint your eyes.
Removed by mod
I hope I’m wrong, but if I’m not what are you going to say when people ask you how you could possibly have fallen for it when the evidence was literally tattooed on his body.
They’ll be blaming us for losing their election again.
This doesn’t come across the most unbiased site ever, exactly.
If you have to resort to Republican propaganda to “prove” your point just accept that you’re wrong
If you defend people “in your tribe” when they do something wrong you’re acting like a Republican
