- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/16451158
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They’ll try to shove you off the platform with constant negativity and trying to act like Trump is just a continuation of all the same. If you didn’t care before, why do you care now?
It’s not. It’s different.
I remember 2004, a friend had come back to our home town for new years, and in our fave local pub, he regaled us with stories of what it was like working with Trump. He told us about what a joke of a played narcissist he is, being primed by his psychopathic handlers for a puppet presidency. … It seemed absurd, implausible even, for about a decade.
I heard recently they were planning on having Charlie Kirk become president in the distant future too… until he grew sense and conscience. Imagine if each of their puppets attain consciousness and conscientiousness… and they have no puppets left to deceive us with… :D
Imagine if USA had democracy. Cleared up all the election rigging, the fixed proprietary voting machines, the lobbying, the gerrymandering, the electoral college, the voter suppression, the bought corporate media, etc, etc, etc. Imagine if the people in USA got to vote for what they want, not merely under duress to vote against who they don’t want.
Imagine if it were real…
Both parties have the identical end goal in mind. One is just slower at it.
So for fucks sake pick the one that’s slower at it so you have more time to do something about it. It’s not like voting locks you out of any other actions.
It’s no use asking these people to do any kind of direct action. They think abstaining once every four years will bring an end to capitalism. They’ll never attend a protest or vote in a primary, much less pick up a gun for the revolution.
But Americans aren’t doing anything about it except voting.
The ones who are going to do more are already doing more, and both-sidesing the ones who aren’t is just going to make them do even less. Just let them help with slowing the descent down a bit, that’s the most they’re going to do anyway. It buys time for the ones who are doing something to do something.
“But they’ll steal the elections!!!”
Oh yeah? Just like all those state and special elections they’ve been losing by double-digit electorate shifts for the last 18 months? Including the one covering FUCKING MAR-A-LAGO???
Grow the fuck up. Get registered to vote, and when elections come round, VOTE, DAMN IT. Fascism only wins if you just give up and let it.
Exactly. I personally believe the election is going to be stolen, but nobody should fucking do the job FOR them. Voting MIGHT work, and you can still prepare for ridiculous, shortsighted guerilla fantasies after taking a day to go TRY the easy solution.
What are these gorilla fantasies?
You know, living in the jungle with your favorite apes
“But they’ll steal the elections!!!”
LOL. Yup. That’s the crux of the terror that knocks people out of their considerate, critical, creative forebrain, and pushes them into their reactive social-dominating survival-focused fearful limbic reflex where they’re easier to control.
This time, America… stop falling for it. :) We can still mend this.
Fascism only wins if you just give up and let it.
And so don’t fall for the false dichotomies. ;D
More than voting may be required. And that does not mean badgering your fellow Americans into deeper divisive groupthink. :)
One should vote, it simply shouldn’t be the end of it.
If you voted Democrat and thought you made your part, wrong. You barely made one shift towards one slightly less terrible group. This is not victory. A part of what you should do, yes. All you should do - not.
Republicans also really love when you vote third party.
Republicans also really love when you vote third party.
(Or Democrat party too, depending on where the votes are being taken from)
Until enough people do, and sufficient votes are taken from the purple party, that they lose.
… But then, may also need to mend all the lobbying, gerymandering, voter suppression, rigged voting machines, electoral college, etc first/simultaneously.
Imagine if the people in USA got a system that helped them vote for what they want, not against who they don’t want. Imagine… :)
Until enough people do, and sufficient votes are taken from the purple party, that they lose.
Nope, you utterly miss the point. First past the post means that Republicans win when the anti-fascist vote is split.
If you don’t like the current candidates of the Democrat party, then go vote in the Democrat primary.
Imagine if the people in USA got a system that helped them vote for what they want, not against who they don’t want. Imagine… :)
There is this little thing called “objective reality”. First past the post sucks, but it is objective reality. You should try taking it into account, some time.
one week old account shilling for a political party
I remember when Gore lost Florida, and therefore the country, because less than one tenth of one percent of voters thought a protest vote for Nader was a good idea. In primaries and in smaller elections, sure, give third party votes a try. But the bigger the election, the more it converges on a choice between the two major parties, and one of them is worse than the other.
gore won that election. the supreme Court stole it.
Nope. Did not miss your point at all. You seemed to miss mine, and doubled down.
A lack of good options in the general is a sign of poor turnout in primaries.
Exactly. And a two party system basically ensures that.
Ah america. The ‘do nothing and hope for the best’ system of election.
That’s why ranked choice voting is needed
There haven’t been fair primaries in three presidential cycles. The DNC is a business and the primaries are entirely up to them and they have sucessfully argued in courts they have no duty to not medel in them any way they see fit. If primary turnout is low, the DNC owns a big share of why too.
One of Propagandas goals is to get you to give up. Uncovering truths and doing research is hard according to Josh Johnson, if it was easy more of us would do it instead of watching memes. Propaganda is designed to flood you with so much crap that you question everything and then give up looking for the truth because its hard. Ai has not helped this.
question everything and then give up looking
?
Why the second part?
Why not just remain questioning everything?
Propaganda is designed to flood you with so much crap that…
… that you [in the current form of propaganda] start to believe the truth is unknowable, because of all the lies in all directions at once. This primes you to give up [on truth and democracy], and seek a totalitarian/fascist strongman to save you.
Carry on questioning everything. Cannot have a fully informed public without educated minds. The mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting nor rejecting it.
Deploying non-belief may decouple you from susceptibility to such psyop propaganda.
We can still mend this.
(Also +1 Josh Johnson, probably my fave comedian these days.).
Probably just poor phrasing on my part.
The video I posted goes into more about how propaganda in the form of flooding you with to much info works and the problems that AI is adding to it.
It wasn’t poor phrasing, friend. It’s exactly correct.
People absolutely give up. They give up because the truth is depressing and the lies are depressing and it’s exhausting trying to police our politicians’ corruptions and the media is complicit and it all seems hopeless.
It’s easier to just put your head in the sand until trouble knocks on your door. And the sad truth is that people will continue to eat shit until there’s nothing left to eat at all. Only then, when they are hungry and cold and scared, will they finally stand up and be angry.
Right, but that’s also no excuse for running lesser monsters on the other side. We have every right to refuse all monsters no matter their severity.
“Both sides are bad” is correct, but perpetuate the notion that you only can vote on the two different parties. There are other parties you can vote on.
“Literally the only way to stay in power”, do I need to remind OP that they WON the elections? Democracy goes both ways, your “side” doesn’t always win.
Republicans also really love when you vote third party.
Only if you were going to vote Democrat.
Republicans hate republican voters going 3rd party.
Which is why the Republicans are directly helping the Green Party. Because every vote for the Green Party is one less vote for Democrats. Should give you a hint about who voting third party helps.
Because every vote for the Green Party is one less vote for Democrats
that’s not true. many people would vote for a green candidate but would never vote for a war party candidat.
I really don’t think that this is limited to American politics.
No, the point is to agitate you against an establishment that wants to prevent you from having a better choice.
Liberals who are passionately defending lesser evil electoralism before primaries have even started are either idiots in denial or moderates who don’t want to talk about why their party is nearly as unpopular as Trump.
People deserve to vote for someone they actually support, not the least terrible option.
Stop blaming the voters.
You’re not wrong, but the time to fix that is at the primary and not the general.
And yes, I’m aware the DNC has their thumb on the scale when it comes to the Democratic primary. So that means vote in your local elections too, so that there are actually progressive candidates to choose from instead of corporate-owned do-nothings.
Well said.
Or as I take it a little further (s/someone/what/ hinting at more direct democracy too):
Imagine getting to vote for what you want, not against who you don’t want.
But I really like how you put it too.
Sure, people deserve better options. But the fucking point is that WHEN those options do NOT exist, voting for the WORSE option is fucking STUPID and supports fascism. When anyone convinces someone who wouldn’t vote for the less bad option not to vote, FASCISM WINS.
When people keep voting for the LESS BAD option when those better options do NOT exist, better options WON’T appear as voting LESS BAD removes the INCENTIVE for it. Therefore voting for the LESS BAD option ensures the options will always remain FASCISM and something slightly LESS BAD - no better options. If one wants better options, keep voting LESS BAD is fucking STUPID.
Your logic only applies to local/state elections. It does not apply to presidential elections.
If you vote 3rd party in a presidential election, you’re a fool acknowleging you’re incapable of doing basic math and fine with the worst case scenario.
Explain how does it not work? People not voting for the shitty D candidate, causing them to lose to R doesn’t create an incentive for D to change course? Do I need to presrnt to you the last two years of intense D soul searching after Kamala lost?
fine with the worst case scenario.
Obvioisly that’s part of the calculus. Most who question the lesser evil approach understand this. However you might not understand that no matter how hard you call people fools, that doesn’t change the picture for people who’ve given up on voting for Turd Sandwich. Might even be achieving the opposite. A lot of people are done with the Turd Sandwich status quo and are either staying home or voting Giant Douche. Sounds like you have to give them something better to vote for if you don’t want more Giant Douche.
People not voting for the shitty D candidate, causing them to lose to R
Congrats, you just elected fascists.
I guess you’ll have to do something about it then.
I am. I’m trying to teach people how not to support fascists.
When the general election hits, you will have two options (yea three or more). You can vote for the Republican, fascist candidate. Or you can vote for the Democratic candidate.
Anything other than - at that point - voting for the Dem is throwing your support behind fascists.
That is simple fact.
And that includes third parties.
Anything you want to try and do to change the system - because it fucking needs it - should be done before/outside of that process.
It’s really not fucking complicated.
I guess people would have to elect at least one more fascist gov’t then. Cause people don’t give a shit what the process is and won’t vote for turd sandwich in sufficient numbers no matter how much you insist they do. And I’m not doing that. I’m merely trying to present the view of the person who doesn’t buy this shit, didn’t vote Kamala and won’t vote Newsom no matter how hard you scold them.
People deserve to vote for someone they actually support, not the least terrible option.
Not if you live in reality.
Stop blaming the voters.
I’ll keep blaming voters who keep voting 3rd party in presidential elections thinking a third party can win when the last most popular 3rd party candidate in the 2024 election only got 0.5% of the total votes cast.
I’ll keep blaming voters that can’t do simple math and make the most intelligent decision based on the reality they live in.
They DO have the right to not vote, but they also DO have a civic duty to cast their votes. Voters are the ones who decide elections, and if the results are bad, it is up to voters to do better next time. I think this is less blaming, and more just people trying to hold the electorate accountable for their choices.
Voters are the ones who decide elections,
Are you sure about that?
Given the voter suppression & gerrymandering, the lobbying & corporate media consolidation, the electoral college & candidate selection process, the rigged proprietary voting machines & counting frauds, etc. etc. etc… [atop the First-Past-The-Post terror scam that coerces people to vote against who they most don’t want between the perceived most likely to win].
More to mend than just getting people to “vote correctly”.
If votes didn’t matter, then none of the efforts you mentioned to suppress and manipulate the voters would be necessary. Yet they’re happening anyway because people do ultimately hold the power, and that terrifies the rich and powerful who seek to control it.
If you guarantee your vote to someone, they will lose any incentive to act for your benefit. It’s really that simple. And if genocide is not a bridge too far for you, God help you, because obviously there’s no limit to what you’ll put up with.
The idea is that you vote for the most pragmatic option at every election. No vote should be guaranteed, but at the same time it’s still your civic duty to make a choice as a voter.
I understand the idea. I’m pointing out the big flaw in that idea. And I disagree that it’s your civic duty to “just vote”.
That’s how democracies work, the electorate needs to be active and involved every election. Therefore, it is the civic duty of every citizen to participate in the system and cast their vote. You don’t have to “guarantee” your vote, but you should still vote on what you think is the best choice every time you get.
Good thing Trump ended the genocide!
Anything to not have to grapple with the idea that just voting blue is not enough, huh? And are we going to pretend that Biden didn’t gleeflully pour billions into the genocide?
Yes, don’t vote at all. Better to have more genocide but having the moral high ground of not having voted for less.
If you are form the US, you are having your primaries by now.
Those are the ones where good people appear and need your vote to stay on the race. Go participate there, instead of complaining about the main election.
This is the correct answer.
The people who support the “both sides bad” argument and the “protest non-voters” are children who still need their parents to order their tendies for them at Chili’s.
- Get involved.
- Understand the actual candidates.
- Vote in the primaries.
The general election should be the last step in executing your civic duties and by that time you should be voting for your team.
I refuse to stop shit talking democrats, if they weren’t absolutely complicit warmongers we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.
How so?
What do you mean how so?
The democrats are prolific warmongers, they just think they’re smarter about it than Republicans.
Oh I’m not arguing that, I’m just asking how that would have kept us out of this mess.
If they weren’t prolific warmongers and instead did things that were actually popular at home then they would probably be seen as more trustworthy and not lost to Trump repeatedly, idk how more to spell it out for you
Nobody is saying not to shit talking them, people are saying that nuance is needed. We need to push for better representatives. BUT. When the general election happens, we need to vote Democrat because REPUBLICANS ARE FUCKING FASCISTS. Because while both sides suck, both sides do not suck equally. So shit talk your Democrats, as long as you shit talk your Republicans even more. Or do they get a pass because you write them off as evil?
Does your shit talking drive people away from voting for Democrats when the vote is Dem vs Repub? If so, you support fascism. Plain and simple.
Put your energy into change where it matters: Primaries, other offices, pushing society back to the left away from fascism. Make sure you’re not helping the fascists win.
The OP meme is not calling for nuance, it’s saying that if you’re shittalking democrats you’re helping Republicans win.
My democrat state rep sucks and is in practice a thinly-veiled Republican coasting on incumbency and people not investigating beyond the ‘D’
My federal rep (D) has been actively complicit in perpetuating the genocide in Palestine and allowing Trump to walk all over Venezuela. I actually put in a lot of effort with antiwar groups to try to sway them in the past. What I learned is that when it comes to war and empire if they want to climb the ranks in DC they’re going to tow the line.
Open Republicans are obviously worse, but theyre also a non factor in my state, they just run for ‘nonpartisan’ seats or pose as democrats. This is also why i chaff at vote-bluers, they will act like challenging an incumbent ‘democrat’ who sucks is somehow helping Republicans
As a lifelong Independent, this post can F all the way off.
Yes, this is my civil, indoor voice.
Don’t you MFing tell me not to have opinions and free will, and that I should change who I am so I don’t make a bunch of establishment Dems that genuinely don’t care if I’m alive or dead have bad feels. Maybe the Dems should Fing field people that don’t gobble billionaire scroat like they invented it.
And Democrats can maybe, just once in a while, not happily fundraise and capitulate and do the policy strategy version of pump and dump schemes around the central point of “hey, we’re not the Nazis, we’re the mildly annoying guys that whimper when Nazis do Nazi shit, but do eventually give them everything they want. So it’s Nazi shit FAST or Nazi shit less fast with some of us around :D”
“Both sides suck” posts should encourage anyone with guts to see how much of the country wants a god damned set of independent candidates or even, (shudder) another MFing option between Shibag A and XXXL Shitbag B. People need to shed the chains of both parties and run at the local level. Give both sides a fucking scare.
Vote who you want. More power to you. But if you vote independent in a presidential election, you’re a goddamn idiot. Full stop. Because you are voting for someone who literally cannot win.
If you’re not even willing to vote against the fascists your laziness is hampering your ability to contribute to a real revolution.
If you can’t tell the difference between the greater evil and the lesser evil then your lack of nuance is hampering your ability to contribute to a real revolution.
If you don’t understand that our voting system is designed to ensure that there are only two viable parties then your lack of education is hampering your ability to contribute to a real revolution.
If you vote, and do nothing else to contribute to positive change, then your laziness and cowardice is hampering your ability to contribute to a real revolution.
Fortunately, these are all fixable issues. You can grow into a more capable person. If enough of us do that we CAN make positive changes to the country, and the world at large.
We CAN oust the fascists. We CAN build a voting system that actually allows for a reasonable bredth of choice. We CAN fix this country. I’m not asking you to give up your opinions or your free will. I’m not asking you to worship the Democrats, or even like them. I’m not asking you to turn a blind eye to all the harmful things democrats have done.
I’m asking you to use your brain and actually steer your actions towards actually making a difference. Part of that is using the resources at your disposal strategically. Closing your eyes to reality and refusing to vote against the fascist isn’t going to change the democrats, nor will it replace them with something better. All it does is pointlessly give up ground to the fascists.
If you’re not even willing to vote against the fascists
Saying I want more options than fascists and fascist-enablers isn’t not being willing to vote. Tell me which party our old friend Bernie Sanders is part of and maybe you’ll see what’s possible.
However, it’s insulting to dictate my actions and force me to accept the Democratic party as anything remotely resembling scavengers who enable Republicans to do whatever they want in hopes they fuck up so they can pick up seats as the “other guys.” Which is what they do when they’re not fucking up and just whiffing reasonable opportunities because they are driven by money and billionaires just as much as the Republicans.
I’m asking you to use your brain
My friend, look at how brainwashed you are to lick Dem boots because you think they’re tastier than some oversized Florsheim shoes. I’m asking you to get off your knees and get everyone’s boots out of your mouth.
Gurl…what you’re not understanding is: liberals and the Democratic Party are the fascists, too. Notice how Dems in office are still voting to fund ICE and fund the Israeli genocide and how they’re still voting in Trump’s nominees and still giving Trump standing ovations at his State of the Union (yeah Elizabeth Warren and John Ossoff did that). The reason: all of these Dem politicians are funded by the same billionaires and foreign lobbies that fund Republican politicians. Who funds you controls you.
Goes to Vegas.
“I don’t care how dumb you think I am, I’m not playing the game your way. If I don’t get four of a kind on the first deal, then I fold. Take my money, see if I give a fuck, I can always make more. I want fucking four of a kind, goddammit, and I want it on a fresh deal.”
That’s how you sound.
I usually see it as calling out the political capture of the two-party system which has rendered the United States an oligarchy with increasingly dysfunctional democratic functions. Quite often it is a call out of the partisanship that reinforces the rigidity of the two party system and preventing any positive or lasting reform. At the very least those are the valid contexts I know of for bringing up any both-sideism of the two American political parties.
But yes, the Republicans do win when there is less voting.
