“Okay, I switched to Linux, now I’m getting this error message: _______.”
“Install ______.”
“It gives me this error now: ______.”
“You have to update the _____ library first.”
“It won’t let me.”
“You have to use sudo.”
“It tells me to clone the git via the command line, but git says verifying login from command line isn’t supported any more.”
“You’re following seven year old instructions.”
“They’re the only instructions I can find.”
“You should switch to this other flavor of Linux.”
Okay, I’ll bite. I’ve been trying Linux every few years for the last few decades and it’s never been anywhere close to replacing Windows for me. I’m not a luddite; I was in tech for many years (MCSE certified) but there just… ALWAYS something that doesn’t work right. And there’s NEVER a simple fix. Linux for me ends up being more of a hobby than a tool and I haven’t had the time or patience to deal with it in the past.
But I’m willing to try again,
Anyone have any resources to get me pointed in the right direction? Which distro to try, how to install as a dual-boot on an exiting Windows machine without breaking it, how to get Steam/Nvidia drivers/games going, etc?
EDIT - Apparently trying to dual boot with Windows on a machine with two physical drives is too much to ask (unless you have a CS degree). Maybe next time, Linux.
I had the same experience as you did: I’ve tried Linux every few years ever since someone brought it to my attention in the nineties. And it always felt like a hobby instead of an invisible layer that just makes my computer tick. After Microsoft tried to ram W11 up my arse for the umpteenth time, I tried again recently. And it was amazing. Absolutely zero driver issues and it is FAST and CLEAN. No pop-ups or sneaky ads or any of the other things that make me feel like a tenant on my own computer. I now have a dual boot setup Ubuntu/W10, where I really only still use the W10 boot for games. And I have my office and audio software living in separate VM’s that I can use regardless of which OS I booted into at the start.
It’s awesome.
I’ve been trying to switch to Linux for the same reasons you mentioned. What OS are you dual booting with windows that you’ve been able to use as a daily driver?
Ubuntu 22.04 LTS (basically the newest regular Ubuntu release). It has native support for my Geforce 1080 gtx and every USB device I have tossed at it so far. I you install on a desktop I recommend setting up a W10 VM just to broaden your options.
What are you running your VM in, out of interest? I’ve only ever used VirtualBox, but it’s not always that performant.
VirtualBox :) There are some tweaks, like committing more memory to a box through a command line than is possible through the UI. And if I need performance, I boot into W10.
I’ll give it another go to see if things have changed over the years, thanks!
Yeah it’s both windows going the Facebook route, and Linux getting quite user friendly IMO.
I’m checking out Linux Mint since a bunch of years and now everything is a breeze, or already installed. Sure, I have learned a lot along the way, and maybe I use less specific softwares and more a browser, but still I feel it’s (I haven’t checked out gaming yet) become a quite mature os.
And its inherent security that windows doesn’t have (I know it’s not “full security” or anything but at least an account is locked in in its own world) makes my Linux pop a command line instantly and my corporate (both thinkpads, corporate is faster) takes 30+ seconds to ‘verify’ over the internet that I’m not hAcKiNg I guess…
I have never been as close as this to switch main PC to Linux :-p
Three distros usually get recommended as fairly hassle-free. Ubuntu (personally haven’t used since 2012 or so, don’t like that they started advertising stuff), Linux Mint (haven’t used in years either, but through no fault of Mint - I changed to something less hassle-free, Gentoo) and Pop!_OS. The latter uses customized Unity, but is working on its’ own desktop environment. I have a feeling that when they’re finished with it, it will be very user friendly (maybe not the FIRST release, but certainly the later ones).
Mint and Pop!_OS are both based on Ubuntu, so you’ll have the vast repository of knowledge that is AskUbuntu to help you with most things.
So get one of those 3 distros and you’ll be good! They come in different flavours (desktop environments), I believe GNOME is the most polished one, KDE (on
Also there’s two new methods to install software - flatpaks and snaps. Flatpaks are considered the better standard and are supported by Linux Mint and Pop!_OS out of the box and Ubuntu… tries to force you to use snaps. Flatpak is decentralized and anyone can host a store (but mostly you just need Flathub, which is configured by default on most distros I believe). Snap is centralized and its’ backend is closed-source, so you’re dependent on Canonical.
Both of these install your software in a sort of sandbox that manages the dependencies - this means there should be no library version conflicts, so it doesn’t matter what the system version of library X is, the application can use whatever version it needs. Should be a way to reduce compatibility issues on your Linux system, I believe - I haven’t tried them yet, mostly because I minimized my kernel to the point where flatpak was complaining about missing some filesystem driver, and I didn’t care too much about getting it to work. Will do it soon though.
As for gaming - Pop!_OS has an image available that comes with nVidia drivers straight out of the box, but the other ones I suggested, will also allow you to install them easily. Steam can be installed via apt (may require configuring a secondary repository) or flatpak (Flathub has it!). Once you have Steam installed, playing Windows games is as easy as checking compatibility on Protondb and seeing if there are any tips on whether you should use a non-default Proton version or add command-line options. But most games without draconian kernel-level anticheats work nowadays. New AAA games that don’t work on default Proton get support fairly quickly on the GloriousEggroll fork of Proton, but that has to be installed manually (I guess nowadays there’s an utility that can handle it too). However, oftentimes, a brand new game will work right away on existing Proton versions too. And sometimes there are regressions, so you may also want to try older Proton versions for some games. But that’s as simple as changing a setup option in the Steam GUI. No terminal-fu required.
Overall, it’s actually fairly pleasant compared to what it was 10 years ago, when you had to configure wine and pray. Proton handles all that for you. If you’re a patient person and can wait a few weeks or months after a game comes out, it’s very good, otherwise it can be a bit hit and miss.
You CAN also play non-steam games using Proton via Steam. I played through the entirety of AC Valhalla that way, by adding Ubisoft launcher as a non-steam App. Completely unsupported so it doesn’t have a special config like it does for officially supported games, but it worked, just had to change the version to something old
This was really helpful and informative. Thanks for taking the time!
I think I’m leaning towards Mint this time based on comments here and my research. Fingers crossed!
I used mint on my laptop and once it was setup I was pleased. The laptop is a 2in1 with a swivel touchscreen and it’s impressive that everything works. Hopefully it works well for you too!
Yeah ignore the people in this thread. I’ve been using Linux for the past year and a half, and it’s the exact same experience for me. And I am definitely more technology literate than the average person.
As much as people want to believe that Linux is easy and hassle-free, it’s not, and it is a long way off. They are biased because they have technical knowledge so they don’t see the problems that the average user would have.
That being said, I do like Linux. There’s a reason why I still use it despite all this. But it’s up to you if it’s worth it.
Edit: Also all the people recommending Linux Mint, in my experience, it was horrible! Very unstable, and not even very customisable. I feel like I’m going crazy. Can someone explain why it’s so popular? Was I doing something wrong?
Linux for me ends up being more of a hobby than a tool and I haven’t had the time or patience to deal with it in the past.
Even though I switched to Linux a couple of years back for all my private machines that’s exactly why I never recommend it even to my tech-savvy friends. You have to be comfortable having to tinker every now and then. However, that’s honestly true for Windows, too. You just have to keep in mind that for non-rolling releases a distribution upgrade is like a Windows version change (and the move from Win 7 to 10 was far from smooth for many).
So, that considered, I think one of the best Linux distributions to get started with minimal tinkering and terminal usage is Mint (Nvidia drivers are packaged, install Steam and setup Proton - I have no experience dual booting though). I’ve installed that for my wife and elderly mother and hardly any problems so far.
Recent annecdote: wife corrupted some Nvidia package because she got impatient during shutdown and just switched off. I had to fix that in the terminal because the X server crashed. That was one time though. Otherwise the proprietary Nvidia drivers work fine (despite the ideological issues around it that I sympathize with).
This is why Linux fanboys also need to embrace the “use the best tool for the job”. I use Linux, just not on my daily driver gaming PC. But I also wouldn’t use Windows as a hypervisor… they all have their place.
It’s definitely different environment so there are lots of small things that you have to get used to.
In all my years of using Linux I have used about every major distro there is. I still stick to the old and tried advice, if people want hassle free distro, they should use Ubuntu.
I’m not happy with snaps but that’s a minor flaw. It still provides the best out of the box experience for people who just want stuff to work.
Dual-boot can be set up at the installation process automatically. Just make sure you have enough space on your NTFS for the installer to make it smaller and stay alert that you pick the correct partitioning scheme on installation “install Ubuntu alongside Windows”. Steam, Nvidia drivers all just work on Ubuntu. No need to tinker.
Switch to Linux and spend way more time making sure everything is updated and having to jump through hoops installing things.
No idea what you mean. I just quickly wanted to update before calling it a night, got a grub update and now it neither boots the default nor the fallback image. I use Arch BTW.
so everything breaks daily i assume?
More seriously: it really doesn’t. This was the first time for me. Fit perfectly here though. Now where did I put that that live USB drive…?
Only the pacman-keys.
That is not a problem on any of the major distros, so I’m not sure what you’ve been using. Most distros have a GUI package manager that is awesome and you can update with just a few clicks. So what hoops are you jumping through, and how is this such a problem that it’s costing you time?
KDE Neon for me. Previously Linux Mint. Both of their app stores are not great (on KDE Neon it only does flatpaks, and takes a full minute to launch), and my apt has had some kind of broken package/dependency for ages now. Also tried to install some app the other day through apt, cant remember what, but it wanted a different version of a package, but it wouldn’t let me install it cause other things depended on a different version. In the end I just gave up and installed the flatpak instead.
Also multiple times, on both Mint and Neon, an update has randomly broken my Nvidia driver, so I had to restore a Timeshift backup.
And Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distros are supposed to be the easiest.
Know what I love about Linux? It allows you to do whatever you want, that includes breaking things. I like having that power… now if you can’t wield it, or are going to complain about it, then you should be under a more limited account and not be adventuring outside of it. My wife and grandparents have no problems on Linux, but I have them on limited accounts so that they can’t break things.
Also multiple times, on both Mint and Neon, an update has randomly broken my Nvidia driver, so I had to restore a Timeshift backup.
Yeah, bad updates happen, that’s to be expected when you support so many different hardware configurations. Windows is no different, they literally deleted user directories with an update in October of 2018, which in my opinion is the most egregious thing you can do to a user. And they have botched so many other things through updates over the years. With Linux, you can boot into a live environment, chroot in, and fix the problem. Easy compared to the alternative of Windows where you are likely re-installing all over. Or worse, and they deleted your family photos like in 2018, and they are gone forever if you didn’t have backups.
What do you mean “limited account”? Do you mean no sudo access? Because I literally wouldn’t be able to install anything except for flatpaks. Are you implying that the breakages are my fault? Cause if so, what did I do to cause them? I don’t personally think I’ve done anything crazy.
Also yes, windows breaks things sometimes as well. But my Linux install has broken over 5 times in the year and a half I’ve been using it. My windows install has broken… not once in the past 5 years. I have definitely had problems, but none so bad that I had to restore a backup or fix it with a live usb like I’ve had to with Linux.
I still like the freedom it gives me, that’s why I still use it. But I feel like recommending it to people who don’t know what they’re doing is a horrible idea.
Also yes, windows breaks things sometimes as well. But my Linux install has broken over 5 times in the year and a half I’ve been using it.
I have 1 desktop and 2 laptops running Arch… in the last year, none of them have broken. In the last 5 years a few have broken a total of 4 times, and were back up and running in < 15 minutes. I have 3 servers running Debian, none of them have ever broken in the 5+ years I’ve ran them. The wife’s laptop runs Mint, it has never broken in the last 5+ years she has ran it. So if your install has broken 5 times in one year, then to answer your question:
“Are you implying that the breakages are my fault?”
Yeah, most fucking definitely.
But I feel like recommending it to people who don’t know what they’re doing is a horrible idea.
That’s because you don’t know what you’re doing, and still do things on it without fully understanding what you’re doing, and break it. Like I said, my wife and grandparents, who have no technical ability whatsoever, don’t have problems. Why do you think that is? They don’t break it, not ever, not even one single time in the last 5+ years. And aside from Arch, which is a cutting edge, rolling release distro, I’ve never had a stable release distro break through updates, ever.
Lol, this was almost 15 years ago and i was just a dumb impatient kid messing around with CentOS. I mainly stopped using it because I couldn’t game on it and I didn’t have as much spare time at school.
And now you’re grown, right? No longer a dumb impatient kid? But still spouting off an opinion of a dumb impatient kid that is out of date by 15 years?
Seriously getting worked up by a lighthearted joke huh? Lol, you need to calm down buddy. I’m not in the least intimidated or bothered by you and I’m not arguing with someone over something silly like this.
Not sure why you think I’m upset, or that I’m trying to intimidate you… I’m merely confirming your position, in your own words. If you think I’m insulting you by confirming that position, well then, you may want to reflect on it a bit longer. Also, there is nothing to argue about, you’re objectively wrong.
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What on earth? Maintaining my Fedora machine has been a breeze, and most games work out the box whenever you install them on Steam!
Gaming has become the main task I expect my Linux device to do expertly!
My grandma runs Ubuntu and has gotten by fine without the command line
Yeah I’m not sure the last time you used Linux but it’s nothing like that these days. As long as you stick with a well established distribution you’ll be fine. I haven’t had to go in a “fix” an update in a while, even in some of the beta updates they’re fairly stable.
Gaming on Linux is easier now but these Linux communities love gaslighting people. Go to any SteamDeck/Linux sub and you’ll find tons of people having issues they wouldn’t have in Windows.
Lol I used CentOS over 10 years ago so I know it’s not the same. At some point I’ll likely mess around with Linux again. It’s amusing seeing how some got my joking around and others seemed to take it seriously. Maybe I should have put /s or something at the end of what I said. Oh well
I accept this fate.
Lol, I’m not hating. I’ve had Linux before but it took more time then I had at that point learning and I mainly use my personal computers for gaming. Which is less of a headache on windows. That’s just me though.
I’m on windows 10, use my PC for work and gaming. The thing with windows is that it works right out of the box, all major softwares are developed for windows in mind. When shit stops working is when you start messing with stuff that isn’t your typical “start the PC -> download program -> install -> run the program -> shut off” which is what most users do. Updating the os, softwares and GPU drivers are easy tasks.
It’s when you start messing with python or softwares that aren’t too mainstream and require a bit more effort that things have the potential to break. Even then, the os itself won’t break on you unless you really try. I broke windows a few times in 15 years but it’s worth mentioning that I was manually and willingly changing registry keys and messing with a lot of other stuff. Even then most of the time I was able to fix it.
With Linux is different. If you just use the OS for basic stuff like browsing the internet and editing documents you should be fine for the most part (if you choose a user friendly and stable distro like Ubuntu or Mint). The moment you try getting to run niche softwares or something that requires you to manually open the command prompt to change things in order to accomodate what you’re trying to achieve, that’s where it gets tough for most people. That’s how Linux works, it’s the user’s fault though not the machine’s.
For me, it’s the right OS for the job. I use Linux for servers, Windows for gaming/work, and MacOS for gaming/personal. However, Linux Gaming is definitely coming along partly thanks to Proton (Valve).
Ah that’s right I had heard something about that. Hopefully it continues improving so people don’t feel like they have to choose either Linux or gaming and can base it purely on which OS they like better.
You can play the vast majority of games easily on Linux right now.
I’ve been a gamer my whole life, and I currently have a Linux system and I play every game I want to play on there just fine, either through Steam and/or Bottles/Steam.
And brick your install when you want to use a package made for an older version of your distro. Got Debian 11? Good luck running that utility built for Debian 10! (or Ubuntu 22.04 and utility built for 18.04)
Mostly just when you initially install like most OSes ; browsers, office suits, game launchers, etc… My mother doesn’t even notice fedora automatically installing updates when she turns her PC off. (I enabled automatic updates for her)
Even with my arch Linux install with Hyprland, most of the time I just update before I turn it off. With a terminal command but even that is just
paruand my password orflatpak update. If I had kde or gnome desktop, I could set it up to auto update too.Sometimes I don’t even bother and use the computer without updating it for a couple of months or it automatically updates when I install new software.
FUD
I haven’t had this kind of problems with Fedora or Nobara, for me they just work. I’ve had more problems and used more time troubleshooting Windows than Linux
I’ve had nothing but problems with Nobara it’s been a nightmare for me. I thought it would be the promised land for Linux gaming.
Gaming is pretty much the same on most distros, Nobara just has some tweaks and made it relatively easy to install proprietary drivers like nvidia, and hardware acceleration codecs etc. What problems you had with Nobara, and what distro you landed after? Just curious
I remember I had a date with a girl back in the’10s. We hit it off and got back to her place. Wanted to show her a funny Internet video.
She brought out an ancient laptop that refused to boot and said her Ex had tried to fix it with Linux.
I got it pointed at the right dependencies, she fellated me as it updated.
I think this is my only sexy story that includes Linux.
Well, I guess there was this one time I loaned a lonely neighbor DOS 6 disks.
But, that does not include Linux.
My suspicion is it’s not just your sexy Linux story but the only sexy Linux story.
I mean we all know that recompiling the kernel is practically a replacement for sex
Never been to PenguiCon, I guess.
This is the best blowjob story I’ve read yet lol
As someone who has had been around Linux-based people and whenever I have had a single gripe about Windows - it’s this.
I don’t have a hate boner with Linux, I just feel like Linux is a little too much for the average casual user. Everything is fine until they run into a single issue with Linux, if the bewilderment of not having their familiar easy to run programs that they had on Windows wasn’t a turn off for them from the get-go.
I would disagree with “average casual user” or maybe I think about them differently. For me average casual user now is completely fine with Linux distribution like Mint or Ubuntu or similar (or maybe chrome os). And with that they are little bit safer online as they are usual targets and victims of malicious software etc.
I think casual users are type of people completely happy with internet browser, media player, image viewer and just basic software … They are usually satisfied with regular Android phone Wich is enough for everything they do in computer space.
This type of users (like my mother and other members of family) are fine with major Linux distros. They don’t care about OS they use, it means nothing to them.
This is where I draw the line when suggesting Linux to people. If they don’t know and don’t care …Linux is usually fine. If they are aware of what type of os they use or even what version ( talking about Windows) I will suggest Linux only if they are open to it and I’m willing to help and recommend some software alternatives.
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Tbh I would probably only bother to use a Linux machine for a media server really, Windows isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, computer games, widespread office and engineering support, general purpose software support and the fact that everyone uses it is the big three reasons why it’s still around, just look at how well Android has managed to stick around.
I think the only way for Linux to get ahead would be to offer easy potential alternatives to all these things, even then they’re only just competing
Thing is, linux is not suitable for general crowd.
How do you play Diablo 4 on Linux again? 4K while we’re at it?
How do you play Diablo 4 on Linux again? 4K while we’re at it?
I don’t have a 4K setup but have been playing D4 since the open beta without issues (Arch Linux, Nvidia card, AMD CPU). Lutris has an installer for the battle.net client, it couldn’t have been more simple to setup.
My parents have a hard time clicking a download button and double clicking to install.
There’s no way I can get them to apt-get anything from a command shell.
There’s also GUI package managers. If you chose a normal distro, there should already be one.
How messed up is it that the touchscreen generation is having the same problem.
Linux Mint doesn’t require you to open a terminal for that. And in contrast to Windows, when you hit update there, you get all your software updated too. Windows still has no package management and you download exes from arbitrary sites you have to poll for updates like a caveman.
Given that you need to install non-native hi rez textures to play Diablo 4 in 4k on Windows, that is not a good test for the “general crowd”.
The moment you get into any kind of high end gaming PCs, you’ve already left “general crowd” territory for most computer users.
Then lets scale down to suit the new narrative.
How do normal users play diablo 4 linux in HD like install and play on Windows?
Install Lutris.
Use the battle net install helper for Lutris.
Launch battle net.
Profit.
It’s like one extra step (install Lutris) compared to Windows. Using Linux doesn’t have to be some archaic mystery and the proliferation of the steam deck is doing wonders at improving the ease of use of all this stuff.
Personally, I don’t really mess with battlenet games at all, but my understanding is that you can open Lutris and install battlenet pretty easily. Then just like on Windows, you install Diablo via their installer, and for most people, it works out of the box.
You can also download battlenet directly and add it as a non steam game to steam and then run it using their Proton compatibility option. This also works on the steam deck.
Look, I’ll be the first one to say that gaming on Linux is not as easy as it can be on Windows. But it is definitely not a bad experience, and hard core gaming is not the majority use case for computers. We have billions of PC users in the world. Under 3 million play Diablo 4. That is a fraction of a fraction of a percent.
Honestly, Heroic and Lutris arguably give a superior experience to inumerable windows installers…when they work. Which is pretty often.
I feel like that is the common trend for me. Linux is the superior experience to Windows in every situation that it works at all.
That includes when an issue arises. I would much prefer to troubleshoot a Linux install than Windows.
Switch to Linux! Then you can have problems with Linux.
The problems are different, and you can fix them in Linux. However, if you like dogshit workflows, a lack of customization, no control or the feeling like your OS is in control instead of you, ads in your OS, and telemetry data being sent, then Windows is the far better option.
I made the switch to linux that time they had three bad patches in a row and nothing was working. Every issue I have had in an issue in linux I am able to fix myself since nothing is obfuscated. I was using x11 rewritten by some Croatian dude as a proof of concept because it was the only thing that allowed torch to address the video card properly. Run into an issue in windows and find out that neither the manufacturer nor microsoft are supporting your product. Nothing i can do about it. Utterly rage inducing.
i’m sorry, i’ve been out of the loop, and i haven’t used windows on my own machines since XP quit being supported, but, fucking ads in the OS. i don’t know if you’re having me on or not.
It’s ads for other Microsoft products, and some things that will very obviously get ads in the future, like news, but actually don’t and nobody can explain how.
So yes, there are ads, but not the way you probably imagined. (Yet?)
If you run an office and need your computers to be relatively idiotproof, use Windowss
And lock that damn Windows DOWN. Windows isn’t idiotproof if you can install just about any software you want.
My wife is not tech savvy at all… no problem on Linux.
Why? So I can have more trouble? :P
Windows sucks but no one seems to realize this because they’re too comfortable with how they fix, or work around, the broken stuff repetitively. The repetitiveness of the bad experience becomes “normal” so nothing is amiss. It being broken is “normal” so in their eyes it "just works"TM. It’s almost like a form of brain washing.
It really is akin to people in domestic abuse situations who are just so numb to it they aren’t motivated to get out.
Maybe we should be taking a book from domestic abuse counseling or something?
In the last decade the only serious troubleshooting I’ve had to do is on non-Windows OSes. Including an install of Ubuntu that I blew away because it froze in the middle of an upgrade and couldn’t load into the OS anymore.
So, speaking from personal experience, Windows is what I use when I just want stuff to work. Other OSes are fun when I have time to kill trying to figure out how to do things.
The thing is, many of us know Windows better than our back yard, because it hasn’t changed much in the past 14 years (Win7). What we might call “basic troubleshooting” might be on the same level as a similar issue on Linux if you knew nothing
If a had a nickel for every windows system that I’ve had to reformat due to a botched upgrade I’d have a small jar of nickels.
“Have you tried turning it off and on again?”
I’ve been using distros since Kubuntu 6.06. While I have dual boot, Ubuntu MATE is what I use everyday.
A little over a month ago I built a new PC on the AM5 socket platform (modern hardware). The ASUS motherboard has a built-in Wi-Fi adapter. Windows 10? It just works, it simply required installing a driver at most. Ubuntu 22.04? Even lspci doesn’t properly identify the adapter name. Now I have to hope that I can find a driver that I will have to compile and hope it to work.
Unfortunately, GNU/Linux distros still aren’t as convenient as Windows. Blame the hardware manufacturers in this case or whatever but, in any case, the final experience is not smooth.
I honestly can’t tell if you are making an ironic joke
No joke at all. It’s literally impossible to talk sense to anyone about how bad Windows is.
I’ve done tech support for 20+ years with the first half being Windows support exclusively and the second half being largely, but not entirely, Linux support. Windows support is much much harder than Linux. Most linux errors are verbose and can be searched to find a wealth of sources of possible fixes. MS errors are nonsensical and usually land you on only one or two other posts that if they don’t work you’re entirely screwed.
I can install Linux in about 15 minutes start to finish including all my commonly installed apps. Windows takes 45min minimum on a good day and if you already know which things are in the drivers DB and which things require third party downloads and installs (and where to get them). That’s just OS and drivers. Software takes much much much longer from all the diverse third party sources. You could maybe cobble together some powershell or something that gets you like 90% of the way to the speed of installing Linux and software. But you’re still going to have some stuff without the API access or CLI inputs that just can’t be scripted.
Battery life and heat production running Linux is much better because it doesn’t spend all your free cycles exfiltrating your data to MS so machines just run faster, smoother, cooler and with better battery life.
At no time do you have to pay for or worry about licenses just trying to install the damn OS. If I had a dime for every person I’ve known in my life running windows unlicensed with that sad black background and that persistent watermark I’d have enough money to afford a single windows home license ($139 Retail).
I could go on. But why when, as noted, no one is going to give it the time of day.
I couldn’t have said it better than this.
I hate Windows for all my soul, and I must use Microsoft stuff at work, lucky me
Half a year ago I started using Ubuntu for work. I hate it. Everything I want to do I can do with windows as well, just easier. Much easier. What I’m left with is a lot of theoretical benefits I’m never going to use and a whole lot of Googleing how to do basic things.
On top of that the system isn’t nearly as stable as Windows. Tons of display issues and even crashes. On a fresh install on a new developer laptop nonetheless. Speak for yourself, but for me the experience on Ubuntu is worse in almost every way.
Replace some troubles, with different troubles. Brilliant, as usual…
No, you don’t say “switch to Linux”. This is an opportunity to be free from the shackles of being the go-to IT support person! If they say they are having computer problems, ask “Is it Linux? No? Sorry, can’t help you”
From my experience you wind up just hitting up YouTube or stack exchange or something similar for a tutorial on how to do something that could work out the box on a Windows machine
A non-technical end-user once had a problem with Windows. A technical friend said “SWITCH TO LINUX”. Now they have thousands of problems.
I’ve been a non-stop user of Linux as my primary OS since before Ubuntu was a thing. I do not recommend Linux systems to my non-technical friends.
As long as the distro is stable anyone can use it to use a browser and browse the internet. I had put Ubuntu Linux for my mom on a laptop, back in 2010, she was using just the browser. She had it for 2 years, no problems. She did nothing else with that laptop though, because that was the first time she was using a computer. She was mostly facebooking.
i gave ubuntu to my 67 yo grandmother and she used it until she died.
i call UBERBullshit on this
You gave Ubuntu to your grandmother and she fucking died?
OMG, Linux kills grandmothers!(I know, I quit Windows around 95, it’s just that I couldn’t resist)
Have you tried turning it off and back on?
My Aunt bought a new laptop to run her eBay/Facebook selling business on. She’s not particularly techy but has used Windows machines for admin work for prob 20 years or so. Laptop had no office apps installed and she tracks everything in a spreadsheet. Original plan was to install Libreoffice but it was running some budget version of Windows 10 you can’t install anything on, can’t remember what it’s called. So I installed Fedora. Chromium and Libreoffice Calc open on login, her ancient HP printer works, she’s able to access her camera as USB mass storage when she lists items and unattended upgrades are enabled. That was 2 years ago, no problems since.
Cool story, bro. And for every such cool story you can bring up I can bring you a hundred, probably, of people who got set up on Linux and returned to Windows because it was a horror show from their perspective.
Let me give you the clue: “The Year of the Linux Desktop” has been declared with monotonous regularity since the 1990s. It still hasn’t arrived. There’s a reason for this, and the quicker Linux (and other F/OSS) advocates grasp why this is, the quicker will the year actually arrive.
Until then, Linux is a fringe OS for techies. (And there it excels. As I said, I’ve been a non-stop user of it for ages.)
I totally agree that can happen. My first experience with Linux was installing Slackware from a CD I got with a magazine at 16. Install worked but I couldn’t really do much with it with no internet connection so abandoned it. Also I hosed the Windows partition when trying to set up dual boot so got banned from the family PC for a while.
Mind clarifying?
Windows S can be turned off, but it does require an internet connection.
All you have to do is turn that off and you can install anything you want. You took a simple problem and made it hard.
I don’t know how this solution should be hard. I always have a live boot usb(O.K. not Fedora) with me and installing these apps is about 1-2 commands and I really don’t like scrolling through legacy Gui apps.
It sounds like they’re talking about the N versions of Windows, which can only install apps through the Microsoft Store. That can be disabled, but my understanding is it’s a pain to get it done. It’s meant to be locked down kind of like Apple products.
I don’t because I don’t wanna be that guy.
But in general these days, I’d absolutely recommend it. Anything in the debian family is just as easy to use as windows. As long as you hook them up with some good cron jobs for auto updates and rollbacks on failures and stuff, they’ll be right as rain.
To be clear, I wouldn’t have in like 2015.
I installed Linux to my tech illiterate parents. They are doing fine. No issues in years.
They probably stopped asking you for help and just used their phones.
My dad thought the XFCE-Materia-Theme is the occasional Windows redesign until i told him.
And last month he wanted his antivirus back, even though i explained it already. But he’s good at other things.
I tried to install I think Ubuntu for my parents. I failed to find a way to properly allow short/simple passwords after like 2 hours of fiddling with configs. Gave up on it after that.
That used to be me. Now whenever someone ask me to fix their computer I’m like “no hablo windowes”
First time I agree with the Raven. Switch to Linux!!! Windows is just a shitshow, we all watch and can’t believe they are doing this. Win 11 will bring us one of the biggest hardware-waste ever in a world where we should spare with resources.
But hey, throw that 4GB RAM machine in the trash bin everyone wants Win11. So glossy and shiny, so hot right now.
Do you know what makes windows great? It just works out of the box with broad driver and software compatibility. Extensive hardware support (Windows 10 runs on any brand new hardware as well as old hardware from 12 years ago). Many professional software applications, such as Adobe Creative Cloud, Autodesk products, and Microsoft Office, are primarily developed for Windows. If you rely on specific professional software, Windows offes better compatibility and support.
Linux offers better security and has a large repository of open source software as well as being very developer friendly. If you’re reading this it’s thanks to Linux. However switching to Linux isn’t a viable option for everyone for the aforementioned points. It surprises me to this day how many smart and tech savvy individuals still can’t grasp this concept.
Yeah, I’m going to have to call you on that whole "Windows just works"TM business. I just had to install drivers, during setup, for a regular hard drive in Windows Server 2019. Last time I tried to run the game Rust on Windows 11 it just wouldn’t run and I blew hours and never could find a solution. Had to go back to Win 10 to get it to run. It’s also pretty easy to pay attention to any news feed and see an endless string of Windows is now broken like X on basically a weekly basis at this point. MS Fired their entire QA team and only tests on virtual machines now. Zero surprise Windows breaks in all sorts of new and interesting ways when it finally meets the real world. Anyone who makes this statement is at best naive and at worst a bold face liar/shill. I do try to assume most people are the prior of course.
That said the rest of your statement is spot on. Right tool for the right job will never not be relevant.
It’s situational, I’ll tell you that. I build PCs and repair them as a side hassle and I’m not saying I never come across issues with Windows (even dating back to the XP days) but I find the troubleshoot process much easier than on Linux regardless of the distro. What I mostly come across is viruses and malwares which I have to clean up on those machines.
Windows breaks in all sorts of new and interesting ways when it finally meets the real world.
I would love if you could elaborate on that, I don’t want to misunderstand. If I have to guess, for some users the “real world” doesn’t go past office work.
I don’t doubt a serious Linux power user would find their way out of most situations. The steep learning curve for Linux is what’s keeping most people (the ones who don’t need rely on Windows for some types of exclusive softwares) from switching. When I first “switched” I was a 16 year old with a lot of time to spare and I started figuring it out to an extent. Can’t say the same about everyone, at least not the people that come to me asking me how to stop programs from opening on their own at startup.
I suppose I can search the internet for you.
QA team fired. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140806183208-12100070-why-did-microsoft-lay-off-programmatic-testers/
A few of the big issues I could find with a real quick search. Just yesterday… https://www.techspot.com/news/99291-buggy-windows-11-update-could-slowing-down-ssds.html
Problem since march, just now fixed, article from today. https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-finally-manages-to-fix-windows-11-defender-local-security-authority-protection-off/
https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/24/23735639/microsoft-surface-pro-x-camera-not-working-error-fix
https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/30/23485717/microsoft-windows-11-gaming-performance-issues-fix
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/9/10952524/microsoft-edge-windows-10-update-inprivate-fix
MS breaking other peoples software, chrome in this case https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/malwarebytes-issues-fix-for-chrome-broken-by-windows-11-kb5027231/
I mean, the problems go on and on and on. https://www.theverge.com/search?q=windows+problem&page=1
To be entirely clear Linux isn’t without problems either but your statement “It just works out of the box…” is patently false.
The problem is that we’ve all learned to work around all the issues Windows poses. This becomes the status quo and we forget how much work and time it took to learn all these hacks and work around over time. At some point applying them all is just what you do. It’s normal now and business as usual which feels like it just works. But it doesn’t.
At least for me I haven’t had any issues with Win11.
Linux is just too much work, even as someone who knows how to use it a decent amount. Even getting something basic to work that works out of the box with windows takes too much googling
I love Linux though and I can’t wait for the day when it’s a drop-in replacement for windows (if that happens). That said it’s gotten a lot better over the years and is really close in some regards
I bet you tried a bunch of years ago, and then you were correct. Today is quite different, just boot up a new Linux mint from a usb stick and check it out (no installation needed).
Linux Mint desktop background is so ugly though ☺️😭😁 so brace yourself!
It just works out of the box with broad driver and software compatibility.
I have literally never had to hunt down some old ass drivers on 90s looking shitty websites on linux. Everything has pretty much just workedtm. I did have to do that just the other day for windows to get the shitass printer working. And you can’t really install just the driver either. No, you have to install the whole bloatware suite because the provided standalone driver doesn’t work because reasons.
I remember Nvidia putting their driver into GeForce Experience just before I stopped using Windows completely. It was taking the driver, adding a user interface on it, stuffed ads inside, required a Nvidia account and ran in the tray all the time. :)
I assume it still works like that on windows. It’s just filled to the brink with shit like that.
You do realize you can just not install GFE, right?
Sure, but it’s the culture of windows. Everything is corporate speak, filled with ads, and taking over the users computer. I got so sick of it all.
Linux is amazing. It just gets out of the way and provides a fast smooth system that never slows down. Has an excellent fast command line and many great applications handled by a very fast and efficient package manager…I mean, it’s just so much better that it’s no going back.
“Gets out of the way”
Yeah I will stop you right there buddy.
Printers suck universally, no matter the OS. It’s something everyone can agree on.
I had the opposite experience, I couldn’t find drivers on Linux for my old Audio Interface (M Audio) from the 2000s but I was able to find an installer for windows on some website and ran just fine on Windows 10. This isn’t even the issue with old tech, if I can’t find drivers (on either OS) for a 15 years old Audio interface, it’s not the end of the world, I just have to accept it. What I find troublesome is sometimes getting modern hardware to work on Linux, especially something that was never designed to work on it.
I don’t want to discredit this argument as many Linux advocates do - the ecosystem does matter. So if you have hardware whose manufacturer only provides Windows drivers or software that only runs on Windows that’s a killer argument, period.
Still, it’s on par with not moving away from Reddit because it has more content. Also true, but maybe you are just sick of their bullshit.
I have literally never had to hunt down some old ass drivers on 90s looking shitty websites on linux
I spent an hour trying to get my Broadcomm wifi card working on Debian. Gave up…
Windows is a bit easier, you need to find the right package, but then it’s just one “next next next install” away
Literally one command away.
My BCM4352 uses wl, https://wiki.debian.org/wl, sadly didn’t get it working. Fortunately, I don’t need WiFi on this machine
And for most people, terminal = no.
There are other ways than terminal. I just found it the easiest way to show the list of available drivers in Debian with a single command.
Also I call bullshit on that “terminal = no”. If people are capable of copy pasting URL they are capable of copying single line of text as well. Even if someone is afraid of terminal it provides a lot less ambiguity and should give it a shot. It doesn’t require navigating through user interface which has tendency to change over time while following someone’s instructions or images which might leave out the step or fail to include where to click, move, open then go to tab, 3rd row down, click open… etc. Besides nothing happens if you make a mistake. World doesn’t end. Computer doesn’t explode.
Windows has been GUI only for end users for 22 years by now…
t doesn’t require navigating through user interface
Yes because terminal syntax and binaries can’t change either, right?
Extensive hardware support is not really true. Windows is supported by hardware manufacturers because it’s popular, but Microsoft isn’t the one making drivers. So Windows doesn’t have extensive hardware support since after installing the OS you have to spend time installing drivers which manufacturers made otherwise it’s almost unusable.
Saying that Windows has driver support means that drivers are supported by the system (because they exist and are available) regardless of the driver’s provider. The entities providing the drivers are essentially what gives Windows support.
Sure you have to spend time installing drivers just like you would have to spend time installing any type of software on a machine to achieve the operating function you require. I don’t think I fully understand what you’re trying to say here.
You are using “support” instead of “capability”. Having capability of installing drivers is pretty much given to any operating system. Said drivers being provided for the operating system in question is a hardware manufacturer thing. Microsoft doesn’t provide support for drivers, they provide capability of installing drivers. Microsoft is not involved in development process of said drivers not do they offer technical support in resolving issues regarding them. The fact Windows is the most popular means most manufacturers will support Windows but that has nothing to do with Microsoft other than charging for that sticker they put on boxes.
If you buy nVidia card, it’s nVidia that supports Windows, not that Windows supports nVidia. nVidia made the effort to develop and test software on that operating system, is providing technical support for that software, has upgrade paths, etc. Windows is just there and popular.
This is completely asinine, you need to read up on your history. Microsoft literally created DirectX in 95 to help developers for software and hardware develop multimedia drivers and applications for windows.
"In late 1994, Microsoft was ready to release Windows 95, its next operating system. An important factor in the value consumers would place on it was the programs that would be able to run on it. Microsoft employee Alex St. John had been in discussions with various game developers asking how likely they would be to bring their MS-DOS games to Windows 95, and found the responses mostly negative; programmers had found that the Windows environment did not provide the necessary features which were available under MS-DOS using BIOS routines or direct hardware access.[6] There were also strong fears of compatibility; a notable case of this was from Disney’s Animated Storybook: The Lion King which was based on the WinG programming interface.[7] Due to numerous incompatible graphics drivers from new Compaq computers that were not tested with the WinG interface which came bundled with the game, it crashed so frequently on many desktop systems that parents had flooded Disney’s call-in help lines.[8][9]
St. John recognized the resistances for game development under Windows would be a limitation, and recruited two additional engineers, Craig Eisler and Eric Engstrom, to develop a better solution to get more programmers to develop games for Windows. The project was codenamed the Manhattan Project, like the World War II project of the same name, and the idea was to displace the Japanese-developed video game consoles with personal computers running Microsoft’s operating system.[8] It had initially used the radiation symbol as its logo but Microsoft asked the team to change the logo.[8] Management did not agree to the project as they were already writing off Windows as a gaming platform, but the three committed towards this project’s development.[9] Their rebellious nature led Brad Silverberg, the senior vice president of Microsoft’s office products, to name the trio the “Beastie Boys”.[10] "
Its also completely foolish to think that the driver engineers from any specific company don’t have a corporate support line to contact if they need help with something or a personal contact they could bounce ideas off of.
Linux is not more secure really, it’s just assumed to be so because it’s less widely attacked for having less market share
Nah, you have a user, it cannot mess with another user, by design.
In windows you can do so many crappy things it’s incredible, like rescue boot and just change the crowd strike executables with a notepad++ exe aaand you are “free!”
The security holes ae trash too, you can’t deny that. Corporate PCs are plagued with “anti virus” and other scanning softs, sending your every keystroke to some authentication server so see if no malicious intent is detected.
If you want to do something efficient, Windows is no longer the way IMO.
The whole point of an OS is to streamline the process it takes to run your applications. No matter how great it is for you, Linux does not do that for everyone.
About the same when you ask for a good GUI replacement for X and someone replies “just use the command line”, like cheers for that men, not what I’m asking for.
AMEN! I asked recently if there was a good Linux alternative to this program I used in Windows called “Bulk Rename Utility” and i was flooded by people telling me how easy it was to set up a script to do what I want.
Turns out the best alternative is running BRU in Wine.
There almost always powerful existing utilities that can do what you want in linux.
But you have to find them and they have a learning curve. Sometimes that “curve” is a cliff.
Krename is pretty nice
This makes me wonder how powerful a repo platform like gitlab would be if it allowed people to suggest software ideas and have people make them. In this instance a simple GUI wrapper for bulk rename command line would be sufficient but I would bet there’s millions of things like that, not world changing software just nice qol stuff
Let me tell you about the wonderful world of pipes
Wahoo!
I tried to do something very similar recently and every solution I found involved using the command line with regular expressions. Fuck I hate regex. It would literally be faster for me to manually rename the files than to debug the regex until it works.
I’d have recommended KRename personally. It uses some programming-esque stuff (format specifiers for stuff), but it’s not exactly difficult to do advanced stuff with it.
No need for a script, just use
rename.
“Why even use a DE? Try a WM like openbox”
Well, because a lot of things are simplified with DE functionality, and not everyone has the same preferences…
The WM folks can be obnoxious lol. But it comes from a place of passion and love for the ecosystem so it’s not bad.
I still don’t understand why there isn’t a terminal-gui (you know, those text but graphical utilities) for basic stuff like mounting a network share. Why do I still need to manually edit fstab?!?
I do have to vouch for sometimes the command line is easier, not with everything but sometimes. Like my VPN sometimes it’s a little slow on the uptake and finding a server all that nonsense but I can also just have a few taps away at the command line and bing bang boom it’s done.
Based 😁
Sometimes what you want to hear and what you need to hear, are not the same thing.
Like wanting to hear “this is the Year of the Linux Desktop” and needing to hear “this is the 27th consecutive Year of the Linux Desktop that failed”?
The Linux desktop is superior, it doesn’t matter what year it is.
And yet people stay away from it in droves.
Fancy that.
Sounds like someone is hearing what he wants to hear, not what he needs to.
And yet people stay away from it in droves.
Ad Populum. I don’t consider the opinions of morons.
Sounds like someone is hearing what he wants to hear, not what he needs to.
Reaching now, huh? Swing and a miss.
