- cross-posted to:
- atheism@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- atheism@lemmy.world
Experts project an estimated 100,000 churches in the US will close or be repurposed over the next decade.
Many churches will be unable to escape this “tsunami” of closings — a grim trajectory one pastor described as, “Every year the pews are getting emptier and the collection plates getting lighter.”
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This is a “tsunami” in the same way that the eradication of polio was.
I wish there were something like community centers to replace the void they’ll leave behind. As a kid we had rec centers with game rooms and courts and stuff. I remember getting a computer lab and thinking it was the coolest thing.
Obviously not the exact same anymore but something similar. I do believe people are becoming lonelier and isolated because of the pandemic and the rise of social media.
Yeah, it’d be awesome if these could be community centers. Local worshipers could still even request the space on occasion!
Replacing them with smoke shops and carwashes and cash advances or a Subway isn’t the net positive we’d hope for. =\
I’ve heard this referred to as a “third space”, a place not home nor work where people can hang out and not be hassled for not buying anything. Like parks and libraries.
They’re quickly disappearing. :(
I like that idea, just a space people can exist together. I wouldn’t mind my tax dollars going to that.
I’ve seen some churches becoming breweries, I think it was in Germany or Sweden.
Good, the majority of churches have changed from social gatherings to political rallies, especially in smaller communities. Rural America is going to die out with the baby boomers and they have no one to blame but themselves for constantly electing these old assholes.
As a Christian…yeah. Yeah this!
The Church is supposed to be neighbors looking out for each other and studying in each others’ homes, and gathering as a community, not superstar collisseums of tens of thousands (those won’t be closing huh lol) or concert venues or monolithic “Everybody listen to this one guy who read the same book we can read but we should do everything he says.” hierarchy clubs.
They opened their hearts to the rich, the far-reicht grifters, the hatemongers, and pushed Jesus right out in the process. Driven by greed and pushing a worldview of greed, is there any wonder why people are tightening their purses as they get robbed left and right by the false idols they elect?
Or the rise in hostility (not violence mind) to the religion. I used to have a live and let live policy but seeing how many will wrap themselves in the flag with a bible saying they know Jesus while excluding everyone else killed that.
They didn’t follow their own texts (apparently this Jesús guy is too liberal). Were too selfish and cowardice to call out their own for literal monstrous acts. Judged and played god for political gains. Protected the powerful at the expense of the weak. All while crying victimhood and intentionally trying to bring about armageddon.
Action meet consequence. No one wants to be in a canabalistic death cult except fascists and they aren’t going to give you money. They are going to rob you.
If only I was confident enough in America to believe it was the Christian Nationalists tending towards closing down.
Good
Finally, some good news in the US.
It won’t be the churches that most need to close. The quiet little church that feeds the local homeless people will close while the Trumpist evangelical megachurches with the hate-spreading, abusive, grifter pastors will be fine.
The mega churches are pretty famous for “stealing sheep.” They’re a bit like country clubs were but for poorer folks. They’ve got facilities and sports clubs and daycare, but offer a degree of
segregationseparation from the general population.Yep. The Wal-Mart of religion
Take over small town drive out locals then raise prices
They are running them like businesses, treating beliefs like marketing, and wondering why nobody is interested.
Boomerslop
They’re also famously not feeding the local hungry or taking in the needy, like when they lock the doors during hurricanes and other acts of God. If they do go on missions, it’s both just a fund raiser and a chance to convert foreigners to wash their other evil acts in public view. They’ll make pamphlets and videos and awards for themselves for their good deeds, which Jesus expressly said not to do.
CIA supported movement to counter act Liberation Theology of the last century is how this became what it is today
It sounds like lots of people are interested…
Be that as it may, I absolutely do not view religion (Christianity or any other faith, abrahamic or otherwise) as a positive influence on this country or the world in general.
If we’re just talking about the US and Christianity (such as it is) here: the fact that so many people have been so easily and readily swept into the ideological sphere of evangelicalism and Christian Dominionism is one of the primary cancers that is destroying the social and political fabric of this place. I’m talking about not just about mega churches, but small town evangelical preachers who’ve gone round the bend and are now full theoated Nationalist Christians, with all that that entails these days (my uncle turned into one of those a while back - we are not on speaking terms). The fact that “normal” Christians appear to be perfectly content to cede ideological control and leadership to a dizzying combination of white nationalists, end-times enthusiasts, tech-magnate neo-feudalists, and profit-gospel MLM scam artists is just… well, there’s a whole fucking section in the Bible about how all of that is a bad idea, but nobody in the cult is reading that, and no “normal” Christians seem to have made much headway at all in getting those people to understand what the religion is supposedly intended to be about.
Very well stated, and matches the resounding feelings quite well.
I can’t speak to 100% accuracy of this interpretation but I find this article on what Jesus said about churches interesting. https://www.christianwebsite.com/what-did-jesus-say-about-church/
The fact that “normal” Christians appear to be perfectly content to cede ideological control and leadership to a dizzying combination of white nationalists, end-times enthusiasts, tech-magnate neo-feudalists, and profit-gospel MLM scam artists is just…
What makes you feel they’re happy?
Repeal churches tax exempt status and most of those megachurches will implode practically overnight. Remove their ability to effectively grift and most of them will move on to a more profitable scam and the ones that are left will be far less dangerous with less money to throw around for bribes.
Thank you for understating this. So much of Lemmy is just hard black and white but there’s so much grey in between that people (myself included) often miss.
One of my friends used to belong to a church that provided them with housing for her and her husband. This was over 20 years ago though. Not sure if the church still offers services like that for those in need.
Megachurchs often don’t outlast their founders. Many if the early ones are closing now
Also mega churches tend to have a lot of drama by those running it. I’m thinking of hillside or is it hillsong, but there are many others. And mega churches are also huge, meaning that many people are impacted and many people post about it.
Anyone remember Ted Haggard? Talk about some drama…dude was one of the most influential evangelicals, then, whoops, turns out he was up to a lot of “sinning”.
I would say “good”, but I’m sure this will somehow not affect megachurches
It’ll probably increase attendance at (and payments to) the megachurches as the smaller community churches close and people who can’t face life without a church look for a new place to go.
Waow church capitalism
Yea this was my first thought.
Anecdotally, in my area (rural, 25ish miles from a mid city) many of the old-school but liberal-ish protestant denominations seem to be withering… Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist etc.
The storefront Baptists are doing just okay, and the metal-shed-building mega or wannabe mega are booming. New Life etc
This is not a particularly great trend imo.
The ongoing schism in the Episcopal church, also not great.
To quote Frank Zappa: “Tax the churches. Tax the businesses owned by the churches.”
And then, for the ones that do actual charity work, have them run the charity separately from the church, under the same rules as secular charities, with regards to taxes and reporting.
Absolutely. There is no reason for these predators to be tax exempt.
I am more than okay with churches being tax-exempt provided they stay strictly away from politics. But they don’t, so tax away!
What? No, they should pay taxes regardless of anyrhing. There’s no good reason they should be exempt at all.
The compromise was that they get no voice but pay no taxes, if they pay taxes they get a political voice
Thomas Cromwell got there way earlier.
Reading between the lines in the article, it’s the more agreeable ones that are closing. Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, to some extent Catholics. The ones that are thriving are your batshit insane Baptist, Evangelical, Pentecostal types. So don’t get too excited from the headline, the worst of Christianity will always survive.
They’ll become less and less mainstream hopefully. Get the assholes out of schools.
The ones that are thriving are your batshit insane Baptist, Evangelical, Pentecostal types.
and there in lies the rub, broad support from their communities for their bat shittery.
This is exactly what I see in my area
The ongoing schism in the Episcopal church is also a tragedy.
Storefront type Baptists are doing just okay, and Catholics have drifted to majority hispanic by now.
Steel-barn / Christian Rock megachurches are expanding
I keep thinking about all that property and buildings already there and people being hungry for third spaces and how I could start some kind of movement that was like open source for software but something for third spaces and done as non-profit.
Something that could host things like makerspaces, quilting groups, book exchanges, swap meets, reading clubs, game day/nights, still rent out for meetups and even weddings/wakes, things like that.
Seems to me that people are dying for third spaces that don’t involve having to cough up money just to be somewhere that is not home, school, or work.
And many people don’t want to be involved in a church per se.
I mean, churches already can do this.
Instead of being the boring place you have to go on Sunday, they’d do what you’re talking about.
Who wants fellowship in the most uncomfortable setting there is?
Cool it with all the pious bullshit, unpucker ye olde asshole and maybe some people might drop in. I cannot think of a more obsolete entity than the current church. Boring, stodgy, judgy, unpleasant. Big fucking surprise nobody is interested.
I think it’d be incredibly hard to have them revamp things from the inside. Suppose a pastor/minister/preacher wants to do something like that and subtract the “branding” of churches being really boring, stodgy, and often problematic (pedos)? Might be really tough to pull that off, and they’d still be a church in the end. I think most people would still nope out.
I’m thinking of using the same locations and turning them into some kind of super community center. Maybe even combine it with low-cost daycare and being a nexus of after-school activities. It’s mostly just a pipe dream, but honestly, I think the right kind of effort/people doing this could have this sweep the nation, under some kind of commonly-recognized naming/branding.
Especially after social media, Covid lockups, AI psychosis, etc…I really do think people of all ages have a real thirst for a physical third place where everyone could find their thing and just be in meatspace with others.
I always see Meetups that lose their location due a business closing or moving or no longer having an employee from the Meetup working there, etc. This could be another way something like this could fill the gap - offer that space for rent at deep discounts such that Meetups could afford it. Add in things like food drives and pantries and bingo nights, etc… to round out the calendar so there is always something to do, and it won’t seem to be some anemic thing of the past.
Reverend Richard Coles seems like the kind of guy to actually do this but I only know him from panel shows with rude jokes.
I’ve talked to plenty of chuchgoing people that would rather have the church die out than have it change.
In Amsterdam, there’s a very nice old church that has been converted to a leather club.
Near my house in England, there’s a big church hall that was sold off by the church and is now still a community center, but with a couple professional offices in part of the building. The building now seems far less derelict (the church hadn’t been giving it the level of maintenance it needed) and it’s being used much more as a result.
The problem is america doesn’t have nice churches
Sure we do, they’re mega churches that are tax exemption scams and don’t do anything to help people but help take away their money.
I mean the nice Gothic buildings
I don’t think The Church was a church before, but maybe you’re talking about a different one?
Could’ve been an underground church in the past when times were spicy.
Otherwise just pick Paradiso; that also was a church.
is it a nice leather club?
The guys standing outside were definitely sporting plenty of leather. They looked like they were having a good time. It’s not my scene so I can’t vouch for what goes on inside. I also don’t know if the leather thing was a one-night-a-week theme or if it’s always on.
Anyway, I just looked it up. It’s called Club Church and, appropriately enough, it’s on Kerkstraat (Church Street) in the city center. If you ever drop in, please come back to share your experiences.
Less churches = less pastors (especially youth pastors) = less children being raped. At least i hope that’s how the math works out.
Always time to become a Scout Leader!
If the rapists are still at large, they’ll find other opportunities. That’s unlikely to improve the statistics.
Except at churches the parents bring the children to the rapists, often don’t believe the children, and the entire organization will then protect the rapists and ostracize the victims and their family.
So certainly less cushy and safe hunting grounds.
Younger folk see the grift.
IIRC, it’s mostly that mega-churches are taking over.
It’s the smaller (ostensibly) community focused ones that are dying.
The bigger the grift the closer to god - or something like that
The might be getting the larger share of a dwindling pool overall. The percentage of Americans that are xtian has gone down a lot.
From early 90s being ~90% to ~63% around 2022, anyway. That’s quite a tidal shift.
A lot of older folks, too. A lot of people used to go to church for the social aspects, but today, everything is about grifting more and more money, and people get tired of constantly being tapped for money.
Also, a lot of people don’t like their church ordering them to vote for evil pedophile traitors, or they’ll go to Hell. The first time my pastor told me that I had to vote for Trump, would have been the last time he ever saw me.
But that didn’t happen to me, because I know better than to welcome Zombie Cannibal Death Cults into my life.
uplifting news!
I want to buy up a megachurch and turn it into a to something that serves everything the Victorian bullshitters despised.
Over here, an abortion clinic. And here we have the needle exchange. On the east end there’s a gay bar and sex dungeon in the basement. (We didn’t really have to make a lot of changes to the basement.) second floor is a children’s library (it was important we placed that one as far away from the basement as possible since….well, trauma from the previous tenants). Psychotherapy is offered on the weekends. In the annex we have a furry menagerie and then the grey room.
In the field out back we have a solar array and charging stations in the parking lot. We also added a bus stop here so those without cars can still come in for low-income food assistance on sundays.
What’s the grey room? Oh it the most sinister room of all. All the complaints we receive from Christians are fed into a paper shredder. Their phone calls also just go to a speakerphone in that room. Nobody mans the grey room. It’s where Christians BS gets ignored entirely.
I love your idea. Please make room for a Planned Parenthood clinic.
EVERY LIFE MATTERS!! I mean, I don’t want any of them, and I don’t care where they go as long as they’re born and it’s someone else’s responsibility. /S
Around my area megachurches are just in industrial buildings. Its not tough to imagine a small manufacturing shop replacing any one of them.
