Trump’s government siding with OpenAI is peak MAGA economics: copyright is sacred until Silicon Valley needs millions of other people’s books, articles and art for free. Then suddenly property rights become an annoying obstacle to »winning the AI race.« Apparently America First now means AI companies first, creators somewhere near last.
Property rights are sacred until they need land to build a data center, then is eminent domain on the name of “public good”
They’re all communists.
Only for corporations and the wealthy not for us plebs.
No. That behavior is distinctively Capitalist. Sacred ruled always bent to convenience.
Absolutely. Unlike these ignorant people, I know what communism is.
‘Maga economics’ is just ordinary US Capitalist/Oligarch economics with panicking Oligarchs ! Did you really think that ‘your’ side of the super right-wing US uni-party would not shit on ANY principles as they see fit ?? Come on man It’s a big club… and you ain’t in it !
Both sides are managed. It’s called ‘controlled opposition’. None of your ‘lefty’ values are officially cared about or listened too and you never had ‘Democracy’ in the US, so the Epsteins were always in control !! All of your opinions are nothing but thin air to your Oligarchy, but… somehow ‘Maga’ are bad, and you are good - without ANY of you having ANY democratic power at all !! Without ANY of you having good information, without ANY of you doing dilligent critical evaluations of your system. How incredibly captured are you people ? Do anyone of you even understand how US is run, or what actually happens in the world ?!?
ANY agreement with ANY of your oligarch politicians/Epstein shtters are direct support for their insane behavior at home, and in their insane endless wars against the rest of the world, and guess what - both sides of the uniparty have had the same foreign policy - for 75 years !!! What you see now is nothing but Oligarch panic, and have nothing to do with any opinions of the Merican people - you are NOT in control, and you are NOT in the club !!
Listen to George Carlin for f’s sake ! You are ALL - Maga’s and Dems alike - ‘controlled opposition’, 2 groups of manipulated, mentally raped, mind-colonised right-wingers that seem to believe whatever you are told by the most insane pschopathic elite, by the most insane media outlets that the Oligarchs actually OWN, and hence you live your entire life in the most ridiculous mis-information-sphere in the known world…
You are ALL being played by the Epsteins pschos from the day you were born until now ! Wake up, Stop fighting each other on their command, Stop listening to their media, Stop hating who you are told to hate, Stop agreeing with their violent aggressions around the world - just S T O P ! !
You’re not wrong but you’re wasting your breath. Every generation has a small group that figures this out and no matter how much they change their own lives, no matter how they try to get the word out, or get involved in activism, or literally anything at all, the masses will not budge. The people are incapable of saving themselves or making substantial changes in their lives without external pressures on them. People you know and like and share your opinion will nod and agree and pontificate from the comfort of their armchairs, but as long as they have even a sliver of comfort and convenience and entertainment they will not change anything about their lives at all. But they sure will get online and bitch all day. The best you can do is either move out of the country or gather like minded friends and family and live on a commune.
Alrighty then, enjoy the end of creative people creating things, let’s all find out together how this ends 😐
And then cries when other countries do it to them
That is awesome, anyone can train an AI model and use copyrighted materials. So this is the end of IP laws?
Copyright is conveniently only flexible for multibillion dollar AI firms.
If anyone ever does try to argue this in court, they’ll just change the justification to “national security.”
We need the most powerful AI we can make because our rival nations are building their most powerful AIs. Our rivals are using their AI to control drone swarms, perform automated intelligence-gathering, do mass automated hacking, and perform influence operations. Wars are quickly devolving into battles of drone swarms vs drone swarms, and the limit is on the people needed to control the. Our rivals are revolutionizing their supply chains with AI. They may even be performing vast automated influence operations designed to target individual citizens. In the near future, if you’re an American citizen, the Chinese government will know who you are personally, have a file on you, and will be using AI to try and psychologically manipulate you. We need to be able to fight this! We simply have no choice but to keep up. National security demands it. Companies participating in national security-crucial AI development will be exempt from copyright laws.
I’m no lawyer, but a law to allow this almost certainly already exists. US law is full of national security exemptions. For example, I’m pretty sure in wartime IP laws can be waived. If you’ve invented some amazing new technology with military applications? If the government comes knocking and you just refuse to sell to them or demand a completely impossible price, there has to be a mechanism in IP law for those rights to simply be waived, or the rights taken by a form of eminent domain. There’s probably some provision of copyright law that would allow a president to void certain copyrights in a national security emergency.
Of course… But it might be fun to test the theory.
Next time they send a cease and desist letter to some website hosting copyrighted content the website should just say they’re using the content to train AI models.
Good effort. You have been deemed a threat to ‘National Security’! Only the biggest ai firms get to do that.
Flexible? That’s a really wrong way to spell “inexistent” …
“I was working on a MR. For America.”
You and I are unfortunately in the class of people that the law binds but does not protect
Training a model with copyright material = fine
Creating copyright material and distributing it = not okay
I can infringe copyrights with Photoshop, or just copy pasting the image itself.
We don’t need to knee cap tools and force everything behind subscription services with censorship just to satisfy the copyright industries craving for blood.
Except you can’t train an AI model from another AI model. Well, not from an American AI model, anyways. I’m sure others are fair game.
I’m starting a religion, reality is a simulation and we are all AI, therefore IP rights don’t apply to anyone who holds that religious belief?
No, just another example that laws are for peyon proletarian poorfags. To the actual citizenry (large corporations) they are more of a suggestion or a guideline. US federal government just works to shaft the media and copyright holder megacorps in favour of the Ai megacorps, because rn the needs of AI megacorps are seens as more critical to the wider global future prospects of the community of corporate entities and global capital, which the American government represents.
Then I’ll continue to pirate everything
- train your local AI models
this is worse than you can imagine. Started college again. Syllabus says, you can’t use AI. Okay, login to the school website; starts with microslops email login to straight to chat gpt. Okay, need to search for something on the school website, here’s the schools AI search. Okay, answer a topic but we will check and grade it with various AI platforms. Okay, write things in your own words and then I get a 0/100 for doing so. I answered it correctly, exponentially better than the outdated class. So yeah, they can get bent. The best part was that the other students that used LLMs to regurgitate my answer differently. Maybe one less person working in cybersecurity is overall better and I’ll just go back to fixing stuff and watch it all get cooked.
He still can’t bring me a beer.
Amen brother.
A follow up question, please:
Q: So, what is illegal for an AI firm to do?
It depends, how big is the suitcase with the bribe?
It has at least 10 pardons worth of cash and untraceable gems!
Nothing if it is in the interest of national security.
my national security or trumps national security?
You know.
Being “woke”.
But you don’t get to enjoy copyrighted materiel yourself
“Rent it again if you love it so much.”
which technically makes piracy legal because that’s the gov endorsing piracy
should update torrent client to say “LLM training agent” instead, legally safe /s
I consider myself somewhat of a LLM.
there’s a Morrissey song about that
yup
Legal for them, not for us
Nah we might need to accept reality. You need to be rich enough to make some bullshit company that uses A.I. then you can pirate legally using that A.I. as an excuse.
so Norm was right. …
You need a $$$/hr lawyer to pull <$100 LLC paperwork out of their briefcase. “My client was just training his company’s innovative new LLM.” We live in an odd world.
Peasants like us can contribute to global leadership by being wage slaves and cannon fodder
amen, brother!
Those were supposed to be the clanker jobs while we humans guided technical innovation, pursued art, culture, philosophy, and solving the biggest problems of humanity.
From me just looking at it, everything they’re trying to do to force US AI supremacy seems to just generate and cause even more pushback. Ban cards to China? China’s ramping up GPU supplying and separating from US dominated supply chains. Ban model exports? They’ll make cheaper and easier models. Idk, whenever you force the market it usually backfires in ways you can’t expect.
The thing is, they’re trying to force the market by actual force rather than slow and methodical coercion. US hegemony is over, because the buffoon in chief, who is terrible at domestic business, is also bad at foreign business. Shocking, I know.
The problem with tariffs is once you use enough on them, you’re effectively imposing economic sanctions or a blockade on your own country.
US hegemony is over
That happened MANY years ago, and US elites came up with a plan to stop China by going through a shitload of wars and psy-op regime-changes - so called ‘Color-revolutions’ created by the CIA etc. All general moves have been outlined in think tank reports. What has happened that are different from normal, is that China suddenly accelerated and ran away from them, and in their panic they have had to trigger all their nasty attacks against all nations that in any way support China. Biden were the same nasty cnt as Trump, he just had only ONE small job for the oligarchs - Ukraine, whereas Trump has gotten them all, S. America, middelEast Iran, and oc the bad bad China. US are trying to regime-changing nations as we speak - exactly the same as under Biden, just much much faster…
All of this is easy to figure out, but the western population was driven into a lynch-mob, an echo-chamber in the same way other nations were regime-changed. So, everyone is lied to, angry af, and as planned, doesn’t listen to counter arguments. ‘Putin-lover’, ‘Commie’ and other childish reactions are the norm, instead of actually investigating the ridiculous Claims from your elite.
Yes, Trump is a buffoon, but honestly, can any of you actually name a single US oligarch politician that are NOT a buffoon ? Come on man, move on from this manufactured infighting and move away from US media. You are being manipulated to hate each other instead of the rich pscho cnts that actually RUN your country, and are actually harming millions of people around the world in a sick pursuit of more power !!
That happened MANY years ago, and US elites came up with a plan to stop China by going through a shitload of wars and psy-op regime-changes - so called ‘Color-revolutions’ created by the CIA etc.
I’m just curious - you mean something like “The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives” (1997)? I haven’t read that yet.
But afaik they just fucking slept on China and that few of the regime change done in the last few 3 decades were aimed at it. Like they helped it get into the WTO and somehow they thought it would just become another neoliberal country that can be bought and controlled.
I clearly see how the “unipolar moment” led to regime change aimed at the middle east and eastward EU and nato expansion of their vassal states, but I don’t see how that affects China.
In any case yeah, China ran away and it’s pretty much over for US global supremacy, especially as they double down on not investing into their people: “In total, China now leads in 66 of the 74 technologies tracked, with the United States leading in the remaining eight” https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/aspis-critical-technology-tracker-2025-updates-and-10-new-technologies/
Like you can force the market with good industrial policy of subsidies and oversight pretty effectively. See East Asia in general. Problem comes when those you gave power with those actions start directing your government to do stupid things for their benefit and they capture the very oversight that made it work in the first place.
It’s only a problem if you want to set up a good policy once and never touch it again.
Life doesn’t work like that. “The problem with cleaning my room is that it gets dirty again.” Well, duh.
Politics is a never ending process of vigilance and fighting. A policy should not be judged as “bad” simply because it requires vigilance and teeth at all times. Literally all good policies require now and will continue to require participation.
Precedent that copyright is not legally enforceable
Precedent that laws don’t apply to billionaires.
Crime is legal now.
Got it, so then they’re outlaws and I can do whatever I want to them.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be as upset if the playing field was level. Alright, you can slurp up and remix the world’s works, but so can anyone, for any reason, for free. Personally, I think use restrictions should only target commercial use, but I’m sure that’s a much more divisive topic. We have a law that is not being applied to those most likely to abuse it at scale.
Precendent was already there. Copyright has never been enforceable when it’s transformative. Collage is legal, so was training neural nets before the copyright industry saw money in it.
No one is saying they output of an llm is copyright (this is a different debate).
What people are talking about is they stole copyright work. They pirated from torrent sights mass amounts of data. That’s the violation at problem.
The output of the training, the model (LLM) itself, is transformative. I’m not talking about the output of the llm nor was the person I was responding to.
The pirating issue has nothing to do with the current lawsuit (the New York Times one mentioned in the article) nor did the government mention it in the current context.
That being said, I’m a pirate in my personal life, and I also think it’s kind of a necessary evil when it comes to building SOTA models. I wish we had a copy left solution to it, so you can use pirated data but need to open source it, so open source has a fighting chance and big AI can buy it if they want it. I’m okay with openAI and anthropic getting brought into court about it I guess, but the legislation ends up being market capture in their favor in the end.
I understand the issues though, very “rule for thee but not for me” currently.
Aaron Schwartz’s prosecution was always bullshit. RIP.
So it’s eminent domain on other people’s copyrighted content?
Gotta keep funneling money to those billionaires.
So literally the Chinese approach to copyright and IP law.
I mean, based -
But I don’t want the elimination of IP rights without a guaranteed income for artists.
It’s not possible to eliminate IP rights under capitalism. Press the Socialism button!
It’s not possible to eliminate IP rights under capitalism.
It is. Independent artists already gain basically nothing from IP law, because they can’t afford to defend their claims in court. The fact that their art (usually, before AI) isn’t stolen is a testament to the fact that there’s just not much money in doing so, while the fact that their art got stolen once AI hit the scene shows that the law doesn’t actually stop the rich from doing this stuff. Press the socialism button anyway, but in any case it’s mostly corporations who benefit from IP law.
Would you say starving artists were fine with you before AI?
Peak capitalism, steal everything from the masses, remix and regurgitate it so no one is the wiser, then sell it back to them via a subscription model.
Makes me sick.
Rules for thee, not for me.
Pirating anything isn’t illegal anymore. If the government can pick and choose people and groups who don’t have to pay for patent or copyright, then there are no patents or copyrights.
To clarify, this is the government’s position, not the law. This hasn’t been officially ruled on yet.
In a lawsuit that The New York Times filed against OpenAI, the Trump administration has contributed a 20-page brief in defense of the ChatGPT maker’s unlicensed use of copyrighted material to train its LLMs.
However, it’s not looking promising in legal terms either.
Pirating was illegal? When?
Where’s all the people shouting how awesome capitalism is, private ownership, the communists will come steal everything from you.
Here come capitalists to steal everything you own so they can make more money. Copyright, shmopyright. They’ve also got eminent domain on their side to build walls and data centers
To my understanding, and excuse me if I‘m wrong because I‘m not a lawyer but that‘s not what the fucking law says? You either uphold copyright law or abandon it. There is no middle way and if courts disagree with you, your stance doesn‘t really matter here.
You misunderstand. YOU can’t use the data. Heck, you can’t easily find it anymore either. They’re scanning all the books and ripping them up as we speak too.
Big companies CAN because they own YOU. Clear?
Uh what do you mean you can’t easily find it anymore? Search engines still exist (perhaps avoid Google unless you have to use it) and neither bookstores, nor the library, are out of books.
The reason they can do this with books is that there are so, so many books that nobody else wants to buy. Like so many that you can just buy books by the foot as a decoration. What books will you get? Nobody knows because nobody gave enough of a fuck to write it down. They’re only valuable for LLM training because they’re new data and they’re only “rare” (as said in some articles) because there wasn’t enough demand to print more.
And destroying the books means there’s no extra copy of them, so for the purpose of copyright law, all is good unless an LLM straight up recites a passage from a book.
Honestly that whole thing might end up being net neutral or even positive, as the paper can be recycled, instead of sitting around as books nobody will read.
We are all training our own AI models now.
They got you hoodwinked there.
They don’t like to talk about it, but the US founding fathers were raging leftists (although that terminology didn’t exist yet). The framers of the constitution had no intention to create a class of intellectual landlords extracting rent from the people. That is why copyright is strictly limited in the constitution.
[the United States Congress shall have power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause
The language is archaic. Useful Arts means inventions and Science means knowledge. The economic consequences of copyright are very much at issue.
That AI training is (generally) Fair Use is a no-brainer. It’s actually much harder to justify copyrights for entertainment products.
