Remind me again how many random civilians have been killed in Ukraine by Russian missiles? How many Palestinian children have been shot in the face by the IDF? How many people in the US are either rounded up and disappeared or just gunned down by the cops daily? Your moral high ground and promises to “hold those responsible accountable” in some future trial that will lead to a sense of “justice” doesn’t mean shit to the people who are dead at the hands of aggressors who give no fucks about morality in the here and now. Every one of us that lets this go on daily because we follow the “rules” our enemy disregards is as steeped in the blood of their victims as they are. They don’t require justification for their actions, they just take advantage of our hesitation and debates over whether we should meet them with equal force.
I’m being realist here, I’m finnish and I know fully well it’s genocide every time Russia attacks somewhere, they’ve done that many times in history here as well. Do you think Ukraine can hold on without the support of European countries? France or Germany or any other western European countries don’t have Russia breathing on their neck, and support for war that’s “not theirs” is easily manipulated by all the shills and bot factories Russia has to spout it’s propaganda.
There is no justice coming, the “evil” will not be held accountable, or if they are, only barely. But making your own odds worse is not going to help, it’s not gonna stop Russia from genociding or stop the palestinian children being brutally murdered. It’s not really about moral high ground in this case - the ones holding it are the ones that don’t understand the war nor care enough. But every bullet and drone strike Ukraine does is one we don’t have to do on our border, ask finnish, polish or someone from the Baltics and you get a whole different view on Russia than you’d get from countries not neighboring it
As an American, I know that every day someone around me is having their life ruined or ended by people I could have stopped. Not broadly, but one on one I have the capacity to end their intent to harm before they harm someone else. Big picture that’s not going to change much, I’d likely be ended or removed from society for my efforts and there’s no guarantee the harm to the person I tried to protect keeps them from harm by those same forces indefinitely. Ending state sanctioned brutality requires state level mobilization of forces willing to oppose that. And then, yeah, it’s a meat grinder of attrition, destruction, and innocent lives in the crossfire until, hopefully, the aggressor capitulates. Then whoever is left does their best to rebuild and learn from the lesson.
You live in a country that has long lived on the border of a ferociously aggressive neighbor and bled to maintain its independence. I live in one that was once the underdog, tore itself apart over the debate about human rights, and has gone on to be both anti-fascist and fascist af. Diplomacy and trying to limit the fallout of full scale war is great, but eventually there’s opponents who have the power, have the resources, and have the support that will only be stopped when enough people lace up their boots, accept their terms, and say “no”.
Oh we agree on that, but sacrificing Ukraine or some other country to get the rest of Europe to wake up is a terrible plan that’d just make things easier for Russia. I’d be great if the ones holding the decisive powers in Europe cared and understood, but as long as they don’t, you have to play by their rules or you’re kinda toast. The process for things to happen is far from simple when it’s Europe in question, and I don’t know are we getting there or not
I read what I thought was a pretty solid review on the current situation. European leaders seem to be holding off on hard lines because, like many Americans, they keep hoping the next election cycle will put a comfortable, familiar ally back in command of the US’ resources. Nobody wants to fight Russia in a full out war, their oligarchs are willing to bleed their nation dry through attrition and worst case they go scorched earth.
But I’m telling you as an American, whatever we were to Europe in the 20th century, whatever right side of history we were on, whatever armies we could muster or nuclear holocaust we could stave off because of mutually assured destruction; we are not that nation anymore and we are not an ally that any European should think will be anytime soon. We are either going to continue to collapse until we’re our own version of Russia, a cabal of oligarchs propping up a strongman and sowing misery internally and abroad that no one stands up to, or we’re going to rip ourselves apart again in a bloody spectacle that the rest of the world sits back and watches in horror. We ain’t voting our way out of this, no outside force is going to aid us, and we’re either going to abide our decline or die trying to stop it.
Ukraine is getting pummeled regardless, and it’s not going to stop until Russia either gets checked or turns on itself, and I don’t think the latter is going to happen. You guys need to be planning for what to do when Trumpism drops cosplay fascism and the US openly embraces what we all know it already is. China knows, why do you think they’re so quiet and patient while the western powers flex where they can and dilly-dallies on how they respond to each others disregard for established etiquette?
I certainly do not envy the situation on your side of the ocean, since just watching from far away things seem to be incredibly fucked. I hope you can find some solution that doesn’t include becoming even worse dystopian hell or devastate everything, especially since the rest of the world will still take a hit too… But yeah I am not a person that has an opinion about that, that matters.
I’m assuming there’s more going on in the talks of European leaders right now, but it’s not just revealed. At least they seem to be finally waking up to the realization that USA is not an ally anymore yeah, not as long as your recent disaster of a leadership is in power. Ukraine is holding out pretty well right now all things considered, they’ve gotten a lot of internal damage done with bringing the war closer to many russians by their drone strikes. I don’t know will Putin crumble before he succumbs to old age, but his position is growing weaker as things stand.
The only way Russia stops it’s warring though really is if it breaks internally and the russian imperialism - that drives the invasions and genocides - is eradicated. Any ceasefire or stop to the war in Ukraine just means they will use the time to gather their resources for a new attack to somewhere, even if it takes some years. And the only way I can see Russia ever being free of the imperialism, is if it fully breaks internally into independent states. No outside force can help with that, that would just give a convenient enemy to blame, and let them continue with the imperialism even if temporarily hindered
Remind me again how many random civilians have been killed in Ukraine by Russian missiles? How many Palestinian children have been shot in the face by the IDF? How many people in the US are either rounded up and disappeared or just gunned down by the cops daily? Your moral high ground and promises to “hold those responsible accountable” in some future trial that will lead to a sense of “justice” doesn’t mean shit to the people who are dead at the hands of aggressors who give no fucks about morality in the here and now. Every one of us that lets this go on daily because we follow the “rules” our enemy disregards is as steeped in the blood of their victims as they are. They don’t require justification for their actions, they just take advantage of our hesitation and debates over whether we should meet them with equal force.
I’m being realist here, I’m finnish and I know fully well it’s genocide every time Russia attacks somewhere, they’ve done that many times in history here as well. Do you think Ukraine can hold on without the support of European countries? France or Germany or any other western European countries don’t have Russia breathing on their neck, and support for war that’s “not theirs” is easily manipulated by all the shills and bot factories Russia has to spout it’s propaganda.
There is no justice coming, the “evil” will not be held accountable, or if they are, only barely. But making your own odds worse is not going to help, it’s not gonna stop Russia from genociding or stop the palestinian children being brutally murdered. It’s not really about moral high ground in this case - the ones holding it are the ones that don’t understand the war nor care enough. But every bullet and drone strike Ukraine does is one we don’t have to do on our border, ask finnish, polish or someone from the Baltics and you get a whole different view on Russia than you’d get from countries not neighboring it
As an American, I know that every day someone around me is having their life ruined or ended by people I could have stopped. Not broadly, but one on one I have the capacity to end their intent to harm before they harm someone else. Big picture that’s not going to change much, I’d likely be ended or removed from society for my efforts and there’s no guarantee the harm to the person I tried to protect keeps them from harm by those same forces indefinitely. Ending state sanctioned brutality requires state level mobilization of forces willing to oppose that. And then, yeah, it’s a meat grinder of attrition, destruction, and innocent lives in the crossfire until, hopefully, the aggressor capitulates. Then whoever is left does their best to rebuild and learn from the lesson.
You live in a country that has long lived on the border of a ferociously aggressive neighbor and bled to maintain its independence. I live in one that was once the underdog, tore itself apart over the debate about human rights, and has gone on to be both anti-fascist and fascist af. Diplomacy and trying to limit the fallout of full scale war is great, but eventually there’s opponents who have the power, have the resources, and have the support that will only be stopped when enough people lace up their boots, accept their terms, and say “no”.
Oh we agree on that, but sacrificing Ukraine or some other country to get the rest of Europe to wake up is a terrible plan that’d just make things easier for Russia. I’d be great if the ones holding the decisive powers in Europe cared and understood, but as long as they don’t, you have to play by their rules or you’re kinda toast. The process for things to happen is far from simple when it’s Europe in question, and I don’t know are we getting there or not
I read what I thought was a pretty solid review on the current situation. European leaders seem to be holding off on hard lines because, like many Americans, they keep hoping the next election cycle will put a comfortable, familiar ally back in command of the US’ resources. Nobody wants to fight Russia in a full out war, their oligarchs are willing to bleed their nation dry through attrition and worst case they go scorched earth.
But I’m telling you as an American, whatever we were to Europe in the 20th century, whatever right side of history we were on, whatever armies we could muster or nuclear holocaust we could stave off because of mutually assured destruction; we are not that nation anymore and we are not an ally that any European should think will be anytime soon. We are either going to continue to collapse until we’re our own version of Russia, a cabal of oligarchs propping up a strongman and sowing misery internally and abroad that no one stands up to, or we’re going to rip ourselves apart again in a bloody spectacle that the rest of the world sits back and watches in horror. We ain’t voting our way out of this, no outside force is going to aid us, and we’re either going to abide our decline or die trying to stop it.
Ukraine is getting pummeled regardless, and it’s not going to stop until Russia either gets checked or turns on itself, and I don’t think the latter is going to happen. You guys need to be planning for what to do when Trumpism drops cosplay fascism and the US openly embraces what we all know it already is. China knows, why do you think they’re so quiet and patient while the western powers flex where they can and dilly-dallies on how they respond to each others disregard for established etiquette?
I certainly do not envy the situation on your side of the ocean, since just watching from far away things seem to be incredibly fucked. I hope you can find some solution that doesn’t include becoming even worse dystopian hell or devastate everything, especially since the rest of the world will still take a hit too… But yeah I am not a person that has an opinion about that, that matters.
I’m assuming there’s more going on in the talks of European leaders right now, but it’s not just revealed. At least they seem to be finally waking up to the realization that USA is not an ally anymore yeah, not as long as your recent disaster of a leadership is in power. Ukraine is holding out pretty well right now all things considered, they’ve gotten a lot of internal damage done with bringing the war closer to many russians by their drone strikes. I don’t know will Putin crumble before he succumbs to old age, but his position is growing weaker as things stand.
The only way Russia stops it’s warring though really is if it breaks internally and the russian imperialism - that drives the invasions and genocides - is eradicated. Any ceasefire or stop to the war in Ukraine just means they will use the time to gather their resources for a new attack to somewhere, even if it takes some years. And the only way I can see Russia ever being free of the imperialism, is if it fully breaks internally into independent states. No outside force can help with that, that would just give a convenient enemy to blame, and let them continue with the imperialism even if temporarily hindered