only fair enough, I remember when they made the US and UK do this after killing hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq
4.5 Million but yeah, glad that the USA and the UK got sanctioned after leading such a genocidal war. This restores my faith in the rules based order.
Can we please stop overusing the word genocide
Also you: https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/1081955
When you say it like that sure, except they also deny the Uyghur genocide and ignore the fact that China has their internet walled off and heavily censored/policed.
Basically they’re so pro-communism that they looped back around and are now pro-fascists and drink the Kool aid. Not to mention the fact that China is only communist in name lol
Yes this is me, thank you for advertising my accurate comment. China is indeed targeting and concentrating minorities into camps. Words have meanings.
Does not seem like words have meanings. All the nuance in your tank is reserved for the constant America-led warmongering in the middle east with a death toll in millions, many more displaced, and known torture sites like Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and god known how many more black sites. Meanwhile the Uyghur are unequivocally being genocided despite ZERO CONFIRMED CASUALTIES four years into the news cycle. So your litmus test for genocide seems to be
despite the emphasis on words having meaning.Lmao good one
This is basically word for word what I was going to post.
You’re not wrong, but just because the USA and UK got away with it doesn’t mean we should continue to let others get away with it. We can’t go back in time and fix it but we’ve got to start somewhere.
Can you even manage in a fever dream to think that this would set a precedent that would result in the US ever getting punished?
it’s just a coincidence that this stuff only ever starts with our state enemies huh? only the bad countries get sanctioned for doing the same things we/our allies do. only Russia has to compete with neutral flags. only African leaders get prosecuted in the ICC.
it’s all nonsense used to manufacture consent for war and military spending
Russia competes with neutral flags because they can’t stop doping. It has nothing to do with us vs them. They literally can’t stop cheating.
every single athlete at the olympics is doping
Source?
I’ve tasted all their piss and it all tastes the same.
Most honest hexbear enjoyer
Common sense?
Have you played sports before? Even at the high school level teenagers are pumping their body full of steriods. I saw them do it myself, I’ve heard the stories from my friends who played rugby. Just look at top high school rugby or american football teams physiques, or at the cardio capacity of teenage track and field athletes. You really think that level is attainable without performance enhancing drugs, at such a widespread level? You really think that stops once these athletes become adults? How about the fact that all of Usain Bolt’s competition got caught doping? You can’t be this gullible. Seriously, read the article I’ve linked below.
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/bernstein-usain-bolt-is-probably-doping-and-you-know-it/
Russia’s sin here was official state involvement, not doping. As long as you pass the drug tests, nothing matters. Remember that Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test. Does that mean he’s a clean athlete? Of course not, and neither was any of his competition. The same applies to the Olympics, the same applies to almost all competitive sports.
This mentality is why we should crack down harder, not softer. Cheating is eroding the public’s confidence in fair competition.
Then why is Russia so bad it then? They constantly get caught.
Why are we letting the people responsible for Iraq and Afghanistans current state get away with it? Like if the US wants to arrest a war criminal Bush and Cheney are right there. Same for Blair, or Harper, or any of the other architects of the invasions.
Because bourgeoisie law does three things. Firstly it protects capital against individuals. Secondly it protects itself against individuals so it can maintain “order”. Finally, it prevents capital against itself, to prevent it devouring itself in competition or sucking hard enough to create a revolutionary populace. Protecting individuals against each other or against capital is not the purpose of law enforcement, much less protecting people from war criminals. (Btw if anyone can find the parenti lecture this was based off, please tell me because i forget)
I’m not saying they should get away with it, I’m just saying that we shouldn’t let Russia get away with it because the United States and the UK got away with it. It’s like the Boomer argument that it’s not fair to them for student loans to be forgiven because they had to pay.
Would you support a policy of student loan forgiveness for only white people?
What kind of stupid ass comment is this?
It’s not your standard stupidity, it’s Hexbear Premium Brand Stupidity.
deleted by creator
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Do you not understand why I said that? I would not support student loan forgiveness only for white people because, while I like student loan forgiveness, I can recognize that such a program would ultimately just be in the interest of white supremacy. I wouldn’t pull the disingenuous liberal line of “you’ve gotta start somewhere” as though the policy was tethered to some imaginary future state that it is nominally more similar to but practically much further from.
Likewise, saying “well, at least by holding Belarus to account some countries will be held to account, which gets us closer to all countries being held to account!” is absurd. It promotes western dominance, not the abstract idea of “holding countries to account”. Striking only one side saying that it’s closer to both sides being struck than striking zero sides would be is sophistry.
I’m not sure where in the world you live, but for myself, I’m in a western country. It would be far more easy for my country to hold the architects of the Afghanistan invasion to account than Putin. The fact that my government doesn’t indicates that all the talk of punishing Russia has nothing to do with punishing aggression, it’s just about punishing a rival
Why are we letting China get away with it? Why are we letting Saudi Arabia get away with it? The IOC is a toaster and it’s like you’re asking it to make you a whole roast dinner. It can’t even make toast properly…
Holy fuck the sarcasm lol
Forget neutral flags, they should be banned. Heck, Russia should be banned for doping, regardless of the war.
I have to wonder if Russia has ever really won a medal without cheating?
They’ve been caught cheating at the paralympics also. What’s next, the special olympics?
No, special olympics are only for you libtards.
You really enjoy being an asshole online, don’tcha? How cute.
I thought Russia was still banned for doping.
This would only be acceptable if Ukraine were also banned
Good lord, the comments on that article. I guess I shouldn’t expect any better from RT, but man it does really make me sad that so many people are happy living in a fantasy world where Ukrainians are the bad guys in this conflict.
If you think that’s bad you really don’t want to look at what’s goin on in Palestine.
Ukraine is the bad guy as they are fascist dictators who will (hopefully) be a former country in the future
For anyone who’s worried when they see RT, Yahoo has this from Reuters: https://sports.yahoo.com/paris-olympics-ukraine-torn-over-132843398.html
Content essentially the same, RT has more info about Moscow’s reactions, Yahoo more about Ukraine.
RT is propaganda
I mean, that’s why I posted what I posted?
All news is propaganda.
Ukraine should perform under the flag of Bandera
Fun fact: flag, in Spanish, means “bandera”.
It’s the etymology of that name actually, italian word for flag (also bandera) got adopted in many slavic countries.
Lmao at whoever downvoted you. Do they disagree? Show your face coward!
Do you realise that upvotes and downvotes are public, and you can see who upvoted and downvoted something?
I was just shit posting. I’ve read that it’s logged, but I’m not aware of where I would find this if it is publicly available.
I mean, the thing all people in this thread probably can agree on is that athletes should perform under some kind of flag. Common ground and all.
the red and black one deeply associated with the far right, you mean?
Putting a lot of trust in some notion of integrity on noted good organisation, the IOC, here
Is that a big bargaining chip or something? The presence of the Ukrainian Olympic team?
I mean, having Ukraine boycott the Olympics isn’t a great look for the Olympics.
didnt a bunch of people boycott it when china was hosting it?
Yeah because the Olympic committee are a bunch of idiots. They keep saying that the Olympics are not political, while being obviously political.
Allowing China to host was a political decision. It showed support for China, no matter how much the Olympic committee said it didn’t.
Morons the lot of them.
The IOC is not a great look for the Olympics. The organisation is cancerous, just like FIFA
No serious athlete will want mickey mouse medals if the real competition isn’t there.
The original Olympic truce required everyone to lay down their arms. It would go against the spirit to selectively enforce this. Not that the IOC actually cares about the legacy of the games, they tried to remove wrestling at one point.
Doesn’t Russia already perform under neutral flags because of the doping?
They should just be banned entirely. How many doping scandals does it take? The presence of their athletes is all Russia cares about. They’ll Photoshop in some flags and parade it around state TV.
I don’t think that’s fair to the athletes. They have all worked super hard to make it to the olympics and they shouldn’t be banned because of their birthplace.
I don’t think it’s fair to the other athletes who also worked super hard to make it to the Olympics. It’s not a prestigious competition if it’s full of cheaters.
deleted by creator
All countries use doping, some are better to hide it.
Source?
No source, but past evidence of scandals ( 100 mt quite eveery record by doped athletes ). Some athletes are breeded like cattles ( see the history of a famous chinese basketball player )
Go Ukraine, but it’s official, this worldnews community has become ragebait, like the original one :/
It’s particularly upsetting because lemmy.ml is a major instance. IMO, moderation in this c/ is infrequent and underwhelming. I don’t mean to hang the mods out to dry; it would take a big team to wade through this effluent and tame the trolls. The hostile “Here comes the Reddit refugees” and “OMG Tankie brigade” shit is just the easy stuff. A rule on lazy whataboutism would help the signal/noise ratio as well. This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
“My post is about black crime, stop mentioning other things like white crime. Yes, I only post about black crime, are you trying to say black people never commit crime? That they should be allowed to commit crime? Thought so.”
Sometimes bringing up context is important for discussing issues that some people would like to keep in a vacuum. The US competing at those same Olympic games under no penalty would be fucked up and makes it obvious that if Belarus was penalized here, it would be due to western politicking and nothing else (Russia already has the doping issue, so idk about that one)
No, you’re not helping. At all. It’s flamebait that can only derail the topic and turn into a circle jerk or verbal fistfight.
Here’s an example that may help: Why is China allowed to participate in the Olympics despite their genocides and brutal crackdowns? Why the double standard?
See? You’re demonstrating my point, it’s not just indifferent, it has a motive.
Though I don’t think you’re helping since Russia did invade while China is doing zero genocides.
I’m sure china is rounding up its citizens and putting them into reeducation camps based on their ethnicity and religious beliefs for reasons other than ethnic cleansing.
Being left wing doesn’t mean you absolutely must support china, especially since a lot of chinese policies are decidedly right wing and almost overwhelmingly authoritarian.
Like nost other “communist” parties in power before them, the CCP is populated mostly by self interested bourgeois that coopted the revolution and pursued a path of oppression against its own people.
Authoritarians gonna authoritate, who’d have guessed.
If you can’t even get the party’s name correct then you have no room to talk on them
This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation.
the ‘punishment’ of russia is night and day to what we saw happen to the US and its western allies after the invasion of iraq. you can go and cry about ‘whataboutism’ as much as you’d like, but those of us who live in a world not shrouded by a willful amnesia of a past historical events can see the gross display of hypocrisy for what it is—namely a confirmation by the western world that some victims (of war) are worth more than others
Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
When your entire schtick is anti-westernism then yeah it is that hard. I really don’t mind the comrades at lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, they generate some thought provoking content at times. However their blind, predictable, and endlessly repeated talking points are tiresome in the same way that an invasion of Fox News viewers would be.
Another centerist attempting to equivicate the left who wants civil rights for all to the right who want to melt anyone the left advocates civil rights for. Yes, your rainbow capitalism will certainly save this planet.
This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
This is why so many instances defederate from hexbear, they do this in every comment section. Just turn it into whataboutism against the US, and add nothing to the topic that’s actually being discussed by the article. They’re basically lemmygrad but brigade comment sections more often.
Yeah, hexbear is trashy authority propaganda.
Brigading is their entire purpose for existence on this site, they actively plot to harass and invade other instances to deny people a platform and talk about where to spread their “forces” next. They were taking bets on where they’ll be defederated next. They were never on this platform to participate in good faith.
Instances defederate from hexbear because of emoji spam more than anything else.
Defederation because of political views is, frankly, dangerous for democracy.
This isn’t about their political views in particular, this is about them brigading comment sections and derailing from the original topic and shouting down anybody who disagrees.
Defederation because of political views is, frankly, dangerous for democracy.
What? This is such a ridiculous claim I’m not even sure where to start. Federation does not equal democracy, and defederation from a shitty spammy instance has zero impact on democracy.
And also don’t forget the mass spam of oversized emojis and pictures of pigs shitting.
Democracy is built on discourse of opposing views. If we just censor all opposing views, then what the fuck is even the point?
Political views aren’t like football teams or favorite colors. Not all political views are valid, should be protected or accepted. If there are people who want to restrict gay marriage because they find gay people disgusting, and on the other hand people who want to leave gay people in peace, why would any sane society tolerate both views?
The democratic obsession with protecting violence, hate and bigotry under the guise of “just an opposing opinion” is infuriating. I don’t think people of opposing views should have the right to argue for them. I want them to stop having those opinions or be removed. Politics isn’t something you can agree to disagree on, it’s a permanent struggle of life and death, poverty and wealth, peace and war. It’s not something I want to stay civil over.
Yet, people with these political views do exist in our society. We need to find a way to integrate them into society, not isolate them.
Defederation is not censorship. All it means is that nobody on that instance wants to hear your bullshit, and are showing you the door. You’re able to make an account on another federated instance if you wanted to hear those vitriolic, harmful people.
There’s about as much discourse here as rival football hooligans having it out in the streets. A lot of violence but it doesn’t really change the score. What’s the point of talking when no one’s listening?
Re: “dangerous for democracy”. That’s a little hyperbolic, don’t ya think?
I don’t support defederation. I think the calls for defederation strictly arise from political clashes that boil out of control and people that don’t remember the Internet-that-was, before Reddit. “Free speech absolutist” wasn’t a thing because no one pictured their little forum as mattering that much. Forum moderation wasn’t about enforcing a specific world view or preserving an echo chamber, it was about preserving civil discourse. And since I’m typing this out I might as well add that I think if I was to dust off an early 90’s or 2000’s mod hat, I’d do the following:
- Referring to other commenters as reddit refugee/hexbear/liberal/grad/imperialist/shill/anti-westerner 's is a 3 day ban
- Bringing up the Iraq War, Tienanmen Sq, etc is a 3 day ban. Not some conspiracy to bury the truth. It’s because everyone’s friggin’ heard it already and we definitely don’t need more of it.
- Lazy whataboutism is a 1 day ban. This is vaguely defined for a purposeful chilling effect.
- War Is Bad. When not the topic of the article, fantasizing about a US-Ruso conflict/popular uprising/Taiwan invasion/WW3 is a 1 day ban.
What do people want this place to be? A place where all sides can meet (if they strictly behave)? An echo chamber? A raging angry gladiator pit? Like I said above, as a major Lemmy instance, this place should be downright boring and the extremists can retreat to other instances better suited to their anger.
What makes you angry about this?
It’s not this, it’s this whole subreddit. Might as well call it world_politics_gore_debate_bait.
Edit: to the stink bugs trying to dunk on me for doing exactly what I wanted to do when referring to this place looking like the worldnews subreddit, look up “metaphor” in a dictionary and stfu
subreddit
🫤
Edit: You ever see somebody say something dumb and then they unabashedly double down? Yeah.
Exactly, this subreddit.
Look up “metaphor” in a dictionary and stop doubling down on your mistaken shallow interpretation of what you just read.
Trying to say calling a Lemmy community a subreddit is a metaphor lmao
Also, you came back to the comments without getting a notification to reply to the edit? Dude, go outside lol
Here, I’ll do it for you:
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/metaphor/
Work today was a nightmare!
You: no, nightmares are not real life, you’re wrong.
You are my shining star.
You: There are no stars on Earth, you’re a moron and I’m dumping you.
Look at this pigsty!
You: This subreddit is not a pigsty, you are an illiterate moron
That athlete is a machine.
You: go learn what a machine is, you’d never make it as an engineer, because I’m in your head and know you didn’t intentionally mean to use a metaphor, because I’m full of myself and you’re a dumb anon.
The difference between you and me in this respect is that I have no shame in apologizing when wrong, while you not so much. Why am I losing time with this? Because people like me have an interest in having people like you be a little less self-righteous.
The rare quadruple down on the dumb. Calling a lemmy community a subreddit is not a metaphor, it’s objectively wrong. No matter how many non-applicable examples you provide. How are you this dense? (That’s rhetorical btw)
Because people like me have an interest in having people like you be a little less self-righteous.
lmfao the projection of writing this at the end of the most self righteous comment I’ve read on lemmy yet is delicious.
Here’s the neutral flag:
deleted by creator
This reminds me of that fencing incident.
Just ban Russia and Belarus from participating FFS. Don’t even let them in under neutral flags.
Hard disagree. Ukraine should be prevented from participating and Russia and Belarus should be treated like normal countries
Now we’re up to $900 per US household for this Ukraine stuff. Let’s throw a few more bucks at it to buy flags. Great use of taxpayer dollars. Sure, Jan.
This conflict has the potential to cause real change in Russia. We’re talking about potentially getting rid of Putin’s regime and it’s being done without sending any of our troops to die. The help Ukraine is getting isn’t charity, look at the bigger picture.
The help Ukraine is getting will go to nill when these fascists finally lose
