I realize most people who would visit 196 certainly know this, but I still feel compelled to point out that anarchism is entirely incompatible with capitalism.
Then explain why the chad in this meme is on the side of the capitalism
You can’t, and your argument lays in shambles
Then I’m left with no choice but to depict myself as the gigachad
I was hoping to avoid such extreme measures
I reneige
Is that how you spell that? Jesus I’m stupid
No, it’s not (remove the i)
Technically, anarchism is incompatible with communism, fascism, and socialism, as all of those require the state to exist in some way if undertaken at the national scale.
Anarcho-capitalism makes the most sense of them all. Just say you don’t want a state to exist at all because you want to suck some robber baron/warlord’s cock.
Which do you not understand: anarchism or communism? Communism is a stateless, classless society. It does not require a state, and it is perfectly compatible with anarchism. In fact, within any form of anarchism you’d find communism.
Anarchism is no state and no hierarchies. In any form, it seeks horizontality and mutual aid. It is absolutely unhinged to think that’s compatible in any way with capitalism.
Jfc the media has really succeeded in deluding people about what anarchism is, haven’t they? The surprising thing is I’d expect that on, say, Facebook or 4chan or Stormfront, but I thought 196 was more … leftist
I thought 196 was more … leftist
Unfortunately once there are more than a few votes a post will reach /all, making it visible on all instances, and with that come… the others… lol
Good point. I always browse by new, so I forgot that that’s a thing.
I guess that explains why posts seem to start with some productive discussion, but then tend to get derailed over time. It gets exhausting having to explain the very basics over and over again, but maybe I need more patience. I too grew up propagandized, and thankfully I’ve had some people help me learn.
Yeah, it can spiral downhill pretty quick, and it’s often the same handful of people who go around doing their wilfully ignorant reactionary thing on every fucking post (and since we can see them on kbin - another group who lurk and downvote any marginally leftist comment without engaging, because gods forbid their bias gets challenged)…
Trying to help these people learn is great, but can only go so far as long as they aren’t interested in knowing. The undecided lurkers though, those are the ones you hope are picking up your knowledge!
Ancaps and tankies are everywhere these days. No good place for an old fashioned ancom anymore.
Then again, same as it ever was.
People grossly misunderstanding both anarchism and communism: nothing new under the sun lol
Communism requires someone to distribute goods and assign labor. That person is effectively going to be your state at essentially any scale above a family.
And if you want to live in a developed society, you need a state to defend against invasion and colonization, arrest murderers and rapists, and regulate trade (even if trade is only external).
That distribution doesn’t have to be top down. And as communism is a stateless society, the entire concept is predicated on the absence of top down distribution. Read up on democratic confederalism, parecon, project cybersin (admittedly done with the presence of a state but there’s nothing about the system the necessitates one).
The CNT-FAI, zapatistas, rojava, and free territories of ukraine can all speak to decentralized militias. For auth-left examples just check out maoist militant orgs, they drew a ton of inspiration for anarchists in how to manage militias.
Most anarchists are prison abolitionists, I’m not going to summarize that one, look into it if you wish
Market economies can and have existed in horizontal societies. There’s nothing inherently contradictory regarding trade regulations in a horizontal society
Communism does not require a state. What part of “a stateless, classless society” are you failing to grasp?
Even state authoritarian communist nations at least ostensibly seek a stateless, classless society. That’s the whole fucking point.
And you don’t need a state for those other things either. Do you think anarchists just throw shit at the wall and hope for the best? There are functioning anarchist communities which have no state. If they did, then they wouldn’t be anarchist.
You misspelled utopia. Not sure what reality you’d expect humans to create a stateless and classless “communism” outside the hippie commune out in the woods.
The comment you replied to even said “at a national scale.” That’s the rub, isn’t it?
Well of course, there would be no nation ideally, so the concept of a national scale is a bit incompatible in a way, isn’t it? As you pointed out in another comment, the existence of nations only threatens progress and equity! They can and do disrupt any such attempt. I mean, look what happened to the Spanish anarchists, and what the US has done every time a remotely leftist movement has taken hold in Latin America.
I don’t agree with the Marxist-Leninists, but even for them the end goal is (at least in theory) to advance to statelessness and classlessness. We anarchists don’t agree that such a thing can be achieved via a state. A state will never offload its power. Its whole shtick is coercion and control, and it will hold onto that at all costs.
utopia
Very few anarchists would use this term. The concept of a utopia is rather antithetical to anarchism, by most people’s assessment. “Utopia” implies a perfect society with no room to progress. I doubt such a thing is possible, and I think it might be rather harmful to imagine we’ve arrived at perfection. It would stifle progress, now wouldn’t it?
Are Ancaps aware they could just…suck a dick without the rest right? I mean if dick in mouth is the endgame they could just get right to it.
Tell me you know nothing about anarchism, communism, fascism, or socialism, without saying you know nothing about anarchism, communism, fascism, or socialism lol…
https://medium.com/international-workers-press/misconceptions-about-communism-2e366f1ef51f
A state, according to the average anarchist, is a society ruled by rulers who make decisions for you.
Resource distribution and factory management could absolutely be planned without a central planner under socialism/communism/whatever. Capitalism, on the other hand, needs bosses and police officers that protect the boss’s property. Fascism doesn’t require an explanation IMO.
Whoever is making the decisions about distribution and factory management is effectively a state at that point.
There’s also the fact that generally, people want to live in developed nations. You’ll need a military to keep your neighboring countries from taking all your stuff/people/land, and you’ll need some kind of police force to keep those few assholes you have internally from just kidnapping people or stealing everything that isn’t nailed down whatever.
Whoever is making the decisions about distribution and factory management is effectively a state at that point
This is objectively false. You can do all these things and not have a state. See: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
You’ll need a military to keep your neighboring countries from taking all your stuff/people/land, and you’ll need some kind of police force to keep those few assholes you have internally from just kidnapping people or stealing everything that isn’t nailed down whatever
As you have pointed out here, the state will always be the enemy of progress, will stand in the way of and disrupt every attempt at creating a more equitable society (which must exist apart from a state, since a state will always trend toward fascism, without exception).
For this reason, most anarchists start practicing our ideals immediately and do not await a revolution. We try to educate people and inform them. We work imperfectly within desperately broken and inequitable systems to introduce more equity and justice.
Want to see an example of this in action? Look up the Zapatistas.
Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society. In what way is that incompatible with anarchism, the ideology based on the elimination of heirarchy (the state)?
Modulo MLs defining state to mean “any method of organising a society” in which case not even anarchism is stateless because yes of course we’re doing that. The common politological understanding of state is more or less along those lines, too. I propose to not get anything in any twists over definitions.
Anything is only incompatible with anarchism insofar as it inflicts hierarchical power. Certain stuff at least some people call communism most certainly falls under that umbrella (though even Lenin admitted it was state capitalism), others are compatible or at least very close. Classical council communism certainly looks awfully like anarcho-syndicalism.
What is the 196 sub? Why is the bad guy depicted as a Chad?
What is the 196 sub?
Shitposting community that is expressly LGBT+ affirming and trends leftist (see stickied posts, for example)
Why is the bad guy depicted as a Chad?
Good question lol. Maybe because the person who doesn’t look like a male stereotype is the reasonable person in this post?
Do we get a poem?
Although I’m just a cheap knockoff, here you go:
Festive nowadays
A day, tiny chad screeches
Beyond the sausage
Thank you!
I’m just a cheap knockoff
I refuse to accept this
That’s a lovely haiku. Don’t sell yourself short.
Im pretty shure ancaps are in favor of abortion rights, they literally want to abolish the state…
no they don’t. anarcho-capitalists are fascists. they don’t want the state gone they just want it minimal and out of the way so they can exploit whoever and whatever they want to build their own empire like a robber baron of ages ago. there is no place for capitalism in anarchy.
Bro did you drink paint? Either you are anarchists (anarcho) or Faschist, you by definition can’t be both. Faschism is maximum state influence, real faschism is closer to communism than capitalism.
And there is place for capitalism in the concept of anarchy. By definition you can do whatever you want in anarchy. Wich is completely idiotic but that’s a different story.
What you describe is a form of Plutocracy not Ancaps or something similar.
ancaps are not anarchists was my whole point bud. and no, the point of anarchy is not ‘do whatever you want even capitalism lol’. anarchy is recognizing that power over others breeds corruption and endeavouring to flatten hierarchies as much as feasibly possible to limit it. anarchy is ‘no ruler’ not ‘no rules lol wheeee’.
And your point is bs because its against a literal definition. You might mean something else, what you mean is rather Plutocracy than ancaps but you don’t seem to understand that.
ok so you’re an ancap trolling. fuck off.
No im not wtf im a social Democrat you just throw around words and don’t even know what they mean.
everyone here is disagreeing with you about this. maybe you’re just wrong. i am an anarchist. ancaps are not accepted by any other faction of anarchists and are recognized as fascists in hiding. just like libertarians are just fash who want to smoke weed, ancaps are fash who want no regulation in the way of their riches, both hide behind minimal lip service and labels. just like fascist states nk and russia hide behind their democracy label.
According to classical anarchist political theory anarcho-capitalism is a contradiction in terms. Private property (as in a select few owning the means to production, not as in personal possessions) will lead to hierarchy and oppression.
Of course self-proclaimed anarcho-capitalists disagree with this point. They believe a free (unregulated) market would be empowering for everybody.
Anarchy is a form of society without rulers.
An- (Greek: “without”) + arkhos (Greek: “ruler”)
- Oxford Languages
The literal definition in the political sense and the literal etymology are “without rulers”.
Exactly.
It’s why ancap is a contradiction
No rulers, except the ones with wealth is what ancap boils down to
And your point is bs because its against a literal definition.
Maybe a dictionary definition because dictionaries capture common understanding, which in the case of anarchism is abysmal. Good dictionaries will also list the actual meaning. But, as you said, a literal definition? That’s exactly “The absence of rulers”. Not the absence of order, the absence of norms, “lawlessness”, that’s called anomie.
And even if we here were wrong and you were right that still wouldn’t matter as by your own admission we can do as we please, including using terms in ways which seem disagreeable to you. But we don’t because we actually care about theory.
In anarcho-capitalism, the person with the most money is indestinguishable from the state, they’re just called something else.
And yes, i did drink paint. Mmm tasty 😋🎨
They think abortion should be restricted by private for-profit entities. If anything, that’s even worse.
Yes but they don’t want a state to forbid it, wich is my point.
They want a state to forbid it if it suits them. You don’t actually believe that they’re anarchists, do you?
They want to abolish the current state and install they’re own feudalist state where money is the only definng factor on of something can be done
Thats by definition not Ancap.
If they were consistent with their beliefs then yeah, but that’s a big if
Thats not a if at all, thats the point of wanting to be anarchists.
"An"caps are not anarchists
Bro its literally in the name, ancap is short for anarcho capitalism. And by definition its correctly used in that name, either you don’t speak about ancaps or you are stupid.
Ok then you must believe that Nazis were socialists and that North Korea is a democracy. Everyone knows that if it’s in the name, it must be true! And fascists like ancaps are famous for being honest and forthright, historically speaking
There is a difference between naming your thing after something and your thing being named after a defined term, you just don’t understand what you are talking about…
You don’t understand what you’re talking about. I see in another comment you think that anarchism is “doing whatever you want” or some ignorant childish shit like that.
You know what I think? I think you actually do know what anarchism is and that you’re just an ancap-defending troll and fascist who came here to start shit. You’re not wanted here, and I’m reporting you for trolling and uncivil behavior on the grounds that you’ve had multiple people patiently explain to you why you’re wrong, and you continue to fling shit like the reactionary primate you are.
Go fuck yourself.
Ancaps: Government is bad because tyranny, we should get rid of it.
Also Ancaps: Here’s how we can still enforce copyright, abortion bans, and racial segregation without a government! 🥰
I’m pretty sure they don’t exist because anarchy is incompatible with capitalism.
Anarchy is incompatible with humans in general but this is about the definition and not if its realistic.
Depends on the ancap. Some are actually progressive capitalists, like the Democrats but on steroids. Others are just nazis that like to jerk off to loli hentai and playing video games, but don’t want the negative association with the authoritarian right, be it your grandpa conservatives or some caricature of nazis (read: a lot of people think nazi equals with people wanting to do evil things for the sake of evil).
