To remind everyone, you are allowed to get a vasectomy for whatever reason you want. No one is forcing you to have children you don’t want, can’t afford, etc. If you’re told no, find a different fucking doctor.
Also remember, children never fix a broken relationship.
Look at this guy, with his penis, assuming everyone has a penis as well. /s
Conservatives in the US are working very hard at forcing women to have children, especially when they can’t afford them.
“Oh, you’re so young, you’ll change your mind in the future.” -Doctors when women insist they want tubal ligation
What you need to do is find yourself a lawyer who surfs so you get tubular litigation.
Children are an STD.
source: I was an STD.
STDs are treatable. Did your parents treat you well?
There’s also vasagel which will hopefully be available before long.
Been hearing about that for literally a decade at this point. I check in on it every once in a while, but it never seems to make much progress
A vasectomy was the best present I bought myself.
The worst part is your job thinking you can work infinite hours because you dont have a kid. Its a fucked up tax.
I have a sick (but not dying) sister with 3 kids. As far as work are concerned, I visit every fortnight to help out and rush up to see them every time there’s an emergency or they need childcare.
I haven’t seen the sister in four years and only see my nephews twice a year when they visit Grandma but work don’t need to know that
just lie and tell them you have a kid
double down, even, and tell them the kid has a debilitating chronic disease that you regularly need to take time off work to bring to appointments and provide support for.
now you have even more free time
I’ve heard that if you let the government know about your child, they even give you free money!
I don’t feel the need to defraud the government and our limited social welfare taxes. I’ll happily tell my employer white lies about family who don’t exist, but never the government.
Would be very hard to fake a child to the government…
Do you not have a contract on how many hours you sell to your job each week?
Lunatic Americans have an honor code, who works more hours-competition to maybe one day perhaps get a promotion…
No I’m pretty sure you’re getting us Americans confused with the Japanese work ethic.
Meh, it gets a bit unsettling and empty when you get into your 40s. At least it did for me. We had a kid (much) later in life and I’m glad we did. We had our DINK fun in our 30s, and I still long for those days sometimes. But having a kid is like filling a hole you didn’t realize you had. And there are moments of joy and bonding that are simply indescribable.
Anyway, to each their own.
to each their own
This is kinda my message to OP et al. You do you, you don’t have to try to shame people who choose something else.
Admittedly, there’s a “having kids” version of CompHet, like, people sometimes have kids because they feel like they have to, like they’re supposed to, not because they want to, and that’s dumb. But those people aren’t addressed by the message of the OP, nor are they provided insight into the reality of OP’s wisdom: you don’t have to if you don’t want to.
And some parents are fucking annoying. They think they’re more important than everyone else (even their own kids) because they chose to take on more responsibility. No DINK should ever have to give up their spot in line, or work longer hours, because of your smug self-righteousness. But – again – these people aren’t addressed by OP. (And, importantly, not all parents are like that.)
I have kids and I love having kids. I have no qualms with anyone who doesn’t have kids. I sometimes have qualms with people who do have kids. Fight the real enemy.
We’re in our 40’s. Wanted kids but couldn’t have them. It was hard, and sometimes still is, but we’re the cool aunt/uncle and we’re making the best of the extra freedom and money we have.
Super eco friendly and anti-consumerism too.
It’s a wonderful life, not having children. Well, a less shitty one, anyway.
Life with a kid has been anything but shitty but ymmv
Maybe take your kid to the doctor if no shit has been involved so far.
[wipingTearsWithWadsOfMoney.gif]
Ah a former Redditor
There’s dozens of us 🎉
But then you don’t get any crappy gifts on Father’s Day 🤷♂️
Says who? You can afford to get yourself a nice lego set every holiday, you ain’t got no crotch fruit taking all your moneys
As I write this, a neighbor’s child is bawling publicly outside my home.
Yeah, all parents seem to want to tell us how their life was meaningless before they had kids, but I’m good.
I’ve seen some of the most insanely inappropriate behavior from kids. Yes the fault is mainly the parents but the other day a child literally tried to take my milkshake because they could. It was awkward and if I’d been a couple steps further away I think the kid would’ve grabbed it out of the worker’s hand. The parent said nothing, probably because they spend all day every day saying no and it’s exhausting.
Is this supposed to be an argument against having children? Yes, kids sometimes misbehave. They’re tiny humans, believe it or not, and sometimes what they want and feel don’t align well with the world around them. It’s the parents job to teach them how to behave around other people, and some parents are fuckups and do not do that job well. But when parents do their job well, that is how amazing adults are made, you see. Even if the outcome can’t be guaranteed in any way.
If you don’t want to have children, that’s fine. I don’t particularly think you should either. But “a kid tried to steal my milkshake” is just a laughable argument.
“Kids misbehave constantly” is a pretty great reason to not want them especially when combined with like 10 more good reasons which I don’t need to list really. Do you really think that I made the decision based on a fuckin’ milkshake?? I’m sorry my example failed the test of “could a parent needlessly justifying their choices reject this”.
If you don’t want to have children, that’s fine. I don’t particularly think you should either.
Okay then why take this personally? I think it’s fair to take it personally that everywhere you look in society people are having kids and subtly shaming those who don’t. I see that allll the time (this thread included).
You’re in the majority by a lot. You don’t need to get mad at a dissenting opinion just because it doesn’t sound (to you) based on the right example/logic/whatever.
I think it’s fair to take it personally that everywhere you look in society people are having kids and subtly shaming those who don’t.
If you read this thread I’d argue there are more people shaming people for their choice of having children (as you appear to do) than otherwise. Basically everyone here who has a kid argues “to each their own” while half of the child free people argue “you’re a selfish idiot if you have kids”. One dude literally called children an STD. Another one calls it a mental illness.This isn’t even subtly shaming.
Yeah and you’re talking about probably less than 50% of 2% of the population. Just because you see the sentiment does it make it prominent. Shaming people for not having kids is so common you could have it happen to you and barely notice it because you’re so used to it.
I didn’t take it personally and I’m not mad. I don’t care if you don’t want kids but this is a public forum and your argument is absurd. The notion that “kids constantly misbehave” is clearly based on limited experience with kids and you seem to have no understanding of parenting, meaning you have a strong opinion on something you know very little about. Which is hardly uncommon, so don’t beat yourself up about it, but still should be remarked upon when encountered.
I think the reason why this subject is so touchy is that people who never have kids can never really know what it’s like, and it cannot really be explained to them either - all parents understand this to some degree. Some things you can only learn through experience.
This is exactly the condescending bullshit that we have to put up with. You are just trying to tell yourself your kids aren’t quite as bad as anyone looking in would think.
I do not need kids to have meaning in life, and those who do need them shouldn’t force that shit down our throats.
You are very clearly the angry one in this conversation. No one cares.
I agree with the other person. I’m glad you don’t have kids too.
It’s beside the point, but I feel I have to tell you that my kids are lactose intolerant and would let you have your milkshake to yourself. It’s my wife you have to keep an eye on there, she loves them.
Unemployed?
not OP, but i wish. how would i afford to do what i want?
I think the drive to have children is so illogical one might call it a mental illness. Why do you need a kid? “I dunno, it just made me feel better”. Why didn’t you adopt? “I dunno, just wanted my own”.
The adoption part really strikes a nerve with me, too. “My own,” is always how I’ve heard it and it’s so indicative of a purely self-centered reason for wanting children - it’s not about the children at all, it’s about the parent. But, that’s never what you’ll hear from a parent when they try to describe how selfless the ineffability of parental love is for their child: “I can’t explain it, you just have to be a parent to understand.” I don’t buy it, as there are countless unloved/unwanted children doomed to grow up in toxic or abusive environments, as well as many step-parents and adopted parents who clearly love their children as much as any biological parent.
I think of it as more of a fear of death and passing on your own genetics as of way of soothing that fear.
Totally devalues the kid as their own person though (common thing for parents to do).
Unfortunately, that’s exactly my observation too. Some people don’t seem to value life itself, but only if it suits them.
If we could measure the essence of “this child was wanted and will be loved” I bet it would be significantly higher for adopted kids. On average, of course.
I think it’s a clear sign that it’s the selfish genes talking, puppeting your higher functions to make sure they survive. Not for any reason, but just because those are the genes most likely to continue reproducing.
It’s a bit egotistic, but I like to imagine I’ve sublimated the drive to reproduce, by helping out my friends and their kids when I can. Hehe stupid genes, you think these are your kids because the bonds of friendship getting crossed wires with direct kinship. Stupid-ass genes, you don’t even know your ride ends here.
Yeah it’s really egotistic, but it’s a fun little fiction.
“I can’t explain it, you just have to be a parent to understand.”
makes me wonder if they have tried a pet and wether or not that wasnt just exactly the same feeling
I think people don’t realize just how expensive and difficult adoption is. My ex wife and I looked into it when we were having fertility trouble. Turns out, five rounds of IVF would have been cheaper than adoption. People got used to the idea that adoption is cheap in the 80s and 90s when China, Korea, and a lot of the Eastern European states had an excess of unwanted babies. That is no longer the case and babies are very hard to come by.
So if babies are hard to come by, are the older orphans hard to come by as well? Or is it just that baby adoption is the preference?
Yeah that’s what makes it so expensive. If you’re willing to adopt an older kid it’s still pricey but not the same.
Not sure I understand. So expensive because babies are more preferred? Or are babies not that much preferred and there’s not actually that many kids in foster care/orphaned?
Like, how expensive? Isn’t delivering a baby in a hospital like 10k? Is it really more difficult and expensive than 9 months of pregnancy?
Most aren’t babies, though, and lots have been through a lot. Having a baby is already a huge commitment; you can’t fault people for not wanting to take on a kid with a history of trauma or a significant disability. That’s a tall order and the people who do it are saints.
If you have insurance, it’s often not that expensive to actually have a baby. IVF is expensive though, and only sometimes covered by insurance. We were looking at $25k for one round of IVF and $5k for each subsequent round, if those were necessary. Adoption was around $50k from what I remember.
This is the best response. Yes, adoption is hard, takes a long time, and can be expensive, and it should be. Choosing to have a child without having the financial means set aside to hedge for their future would be irresponsible.
It’s not just financial. It’s the longterm commitment to care for another creature. Best example is the animal adoptions during lockdown. So many of those pets ended right back in shelters because people realized they liked the idea of a pet, not the actuality. That’s a big part of the reason the barrier of entry is so high for adoption.
Still 65,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US alone. On average.
It’s the most basic survival instinct maybe? Jesus what a dumb fucking comment, holy shit.
I am always flabbergasted by people trying to argue that having kids is illogical, selfish, unnatural, etc. Like, the fuck you think we’ve been doing as a species for millions of years? What ya think every other living being on earth is doing?
People trying to reinvent the wheel and making something mundane unnecessarily complicated just annoy the shit out of me. No one is forcing anyone to have kids (at least in societies that don’t ban abortions). You don’t want them or don’t feel equipped to have them - no one cares. But yeah let’s make your own insecurities and traumas and whatever personal reasons you have into an ideology that promotes that creating new life is bad per se.
Having kids is neither good nor bad. It is not selfish or altruistic. It just is. There is no need in overly moralizing it.
Just because something is natural doesn’t make it rational.
Here’s the way I see it: we are social creatures, and our relationships define a lot about us and our lives. A parent’s relationship with a child is a very significant one, which can be very rewarding in the right circumstances. We all know the cliche about “if we have a baby it will fix this relationship” and similar.
The drive to reproduce seems like an evolutionary necessity. We wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for that. But that’s an instinct really, and not a rational thought-out thing.
Adoption is extremely important, but it is also the hard mode of becoming a parent. The only reason I even have a biological child is because my wife and I tried one more doctor after being a year or two into the crushing roller coaster of the adoption process, and even having a double adoption fall through.
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And yet here we are doing the same thing
I have friends who didn’t have kids and all of them either end up “adopting” friends who were young and needed a mentor or doing something more meaningful with their lives. One became a professor and is a mentor for kids and the other one became a local radio host that helps people through their emotions.
I honestly didn’t know what I was missing until I had my son. To each their own.
And that’s really the point, you don’t add meaning to your life because you have a kid. You add meaning to your life by helping others. Some people do that with their kids while my husband and I choose to do that with friends and family. I’m happy with being child free and I’m happy for those people who find meaning in raising their kids. It’s not an either/or situation.
That’s so well said. I think a lot of people don’t even realize how much we need other people to be happy with ourselves, by ourselves. We need connection and some voluntary dependence to be able to see and understand ourselves. Having a kid is one way but it is not the only way to realize this or to achieve this. It is probably the most straightforward one that just “happens” to a lot of people passively. To find meaning in helping other people that are not your family one has to actively seek this out. And maybe there is even something about having to actively seek this versus having this happen to you.
I will preface by saying that having kids is hard, and today more than ever, it is not necessary to have kids.
But mentoring and bonding with someone else’s kid is not the same thing as having your own kid, by a mile. I’ve done both, and having your own kid is a unique feeling.
The nice thing though is that if you don’t have kids, you don’t know what it’s like. So you don’t miss anything because you’ve never had that feeling.
So when you hear people like me that it’s the best feeling in the world, you don’t have that experience. So for you, it’s not true.
That’s the best.
